What's the call in this instance.....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Tripping over someone's foot is likely because that foot is outside the cylinder that each person is entitled to. ..... possible foot-outside-the-cylinder contact caused a block (more likely).

If the contact was the illegal foot position, I have a blocking foul.

If the defender is there minding his own business, he can be doing the splits, and if he does not move, it isn't a blocking foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the defender is there minding his own business, he can be doing the splits, and if he does not move, it isn't a blocking foul.

Do you even read the rules before you shoot your mouth off?

10-6-1 . . .

A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.

You couldn't be more wrong.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

10-6-1 . . .

A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.

I think JAR is thinking about the case play, which I can't find at the moment , that says a player who lying on the floor is entitled to that spot and if the dribbler trips over him, it's not a foul on the defender.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I think JAR is thinking about the case play, which I can't find at the moment , that says a player who lying on the floor is entitled to that spot and if the dribbler trips over him, it's not a foul on the defender.

That was the general idea. Someone referred to the cylinder each player was entitled to and not having a foot outside the shoulder. I was saying that assuming any position does not necessarily make one guilty of the foul. Defender hustling back slips and goes down. Offensive player behind him trips over his extended limb. This is not a blocking foul. Nevada is trying to help me understand things, every chance he gets.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I think JAR is thinking about the case play, which I can't find at the moment , that says a player who lying on the floor is entitled to that spot and if the dribbler trips over him, it's not a foul on the defender.

The reason that you can't find that case play ruling is that it has been removed from the books. Try searching some old threads on this forum if you want to see it.
If I recall correctly, the play actually says that the defender went for a steal and missed. That is why he is temporarily lying on the floor. That is a natural position as it was a result of normal action for the game of basketball, and therefore, he isn't to be penalized under NFHS rules.

Originally Posted by just another ref

That was the general idea. Someone referred to the cylinder each player was entitled to and not having a foot outside the shoulder. I was saying that assuming any position does not necessarily make one guilty of the foul. Defender hustling back slips and goes down. Offensive player behind him trips over his extended limb. This is not a blocking foul. Nevada is trying to help me understand things, every chance he gets.

JAR, I must apologize for being snide in my post to you. I occasionally get cranky and my Jurassic side comes out. Different things have been known to set me off. It could be a poster making a declarative statement that when read in a straight-forward manner is emphatically incorrect or it could be someone taking the pulse of the forum following the officiating of a state championship football game by a certain member.
I'll now attempt to banish my inner demon back to the location of one of our recently departed, yet still esteemed members.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

JAR, I must apologize for being snide in my post to you.

You were snide?? Say it ain't so!

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Do you even read the rules before you shoot your mouth off?

Oh, yeah, now I remember.

Forget about it. You help to keep me humble.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the defender is there minding his own business, he can be doing the splits, and if he does not move, it isn't a blocking foul.

when does legal guarding position end?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

when does legal guarding position end?

I was not talking about legal guarding position here. To achieve and maintain legal guarding position, the player basically may not extend any body part into the path of the opponent.

The point was that each player is entitled to his own spot on the floor. If a player chooses to sit down on the floor and do stretching exercises, then an opponent comes along and trips over him 10 seconds later, I would be hard pressed to call this a blocking foul.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I was not talking about legal guarding position here. To achieve and maintain legal guarding position, the player basically may not extend any body part into the path of the opponent.

The point was that each player is entitled to his own spot on the floor. If a player chooses to sit down on the floor and do stretching exercises, then an opponent comes along and trips over him 10 seconds later, I would be hard pressed to call this a blocking foul.

you're correct - every player is entitled to their own spot on the floor. if you deem that the player that is sitting down on the floor doing stretching exercises has LGP, then there can be no blocking foul. HOWEVER, if you think a player sitting on the floor has established LGP, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn or some swamp land in Florida to sell you......

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

you're correct - every player is entitled to their own spot on the floor. if you deem that the player that is sitting down on the floor doing stretching exercises has LGP, then there can be no blocking foul. HOWEVER, if you think a player sitting on the floor has established LGP, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn or some swamp land in Florida to sell you......

"a spot on the floor" and "lgp" are not necessarily the same concept.

Having LGP gives the defender additional rights (the right to move...). A stationary player need not have LGP to have a legal postiion and, thus, not be guilty of a blocking foul.