New one for me

jdw3018 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:08pm

As soon as it was apparent both teams were playing the wrong way (not just lining up for a trick play), you should have blown the ball dead.

What you did by allowing them to play the wrong way was outside the rules, therefore I think you did the right thing by following the case play in which everyone believes they are going the right way.

OHBBREF · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018

What you did by allowing them to play the wrong way was outside the rules, therefore I think you did the right thing by following the case play in which everyone believes they are going the right way.

First off how did you and your partner line up to start the quarter, I will assume correctly, since you were looking for the "trick play".

If you lined up correctly and they go the wrong way, it isn't your job to stop them, what if it was a two point game and that mistake would tie the score, a tie game with seconds to play for the title of the world, for what reason by rule are you stoping the game?

If you point the correct direction and are lined up properly and the players go the wrong way - you do not have the authority by rule to stop them.

Permitting them to go the wrong way IMHO means you the official are responsible for the incorrect directions they are going.

Texref · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:27pm

[QUOTE=OHBBREF;554433]First off how did you and your partner line up to start the quarter, I will assume correctly, since you were looking for the "trick play".

[QUOTE]

I was the R and was to the Team A backcourt side of the thrower. My partner did not go to the Team A's baseline, rather he stayed at about mid court. Not where I go, but I also don't think his position was incorrect either.

I thought about (in the future if this happens again) blowing it dead as soon as it is apparent that they believe they are going that way.

Adam · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:31pm

[QUOTE=Texref;554434][QUOTE=OHBBREF;554433]First off how did you and your partner line up to start the quarter, I will assume correctly, since you were looking for the "trick play".

Quote:

I was the R and was to the Team A backcourt side of the thrower. My partner did not go to the Team A's baseline, rather he stayed at about mid court. Not where I go, but I also don't think his position was incorrect either.

I thought about (in the future if this happens again) blowing it dead as soon as it is apparent that they believe they are going that way.

If it's apparent everyone is playing backwards, blow it dead and set them straight.

Texref · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If it's apparent everyone is playing backwards, blow it dead and set them straight.

Ok, so in the future I'll do that, but what would you have done in the situation presented?

Adam · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texref

Ok, so in the future I'll do that, but what would you have done in the situation presented?

Exactly as you did, based on the same case play you mentioned. I disagree that you did it wrong (other than letting play continue).

OHBBREF · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Exactly as you did, based on the same case play you mentioned. I disagree that you did it wrong (other than letting play continue).

So what you are saying is thatif team A inbounds on the base line in their backcourt after a timeout, and Team B is pressing - A1 inbounds to A3 who is cutting toward the baseline and then just drives to hoop and throws toward the basket you realize that they are going the wrong way so are you going to stop it?

if you line them up right you are not responsible for what they do after that point.

rpirtle · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 21, 2008, 06:12pm

[QUOTE=Snaqwells;554435][QUOTE=Texref;554434]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

First off how did you and your partner line up to start the quarter, I will assume correctly, since you were looking for the "trick play".

If it's apparent everyone is playing backwards, blow it dead and set them straight.

I totally agree with the your comment about immediately blowing the play dead as soon as we knew they were going the wrong way. It was our intent to allow Team A the opportunity to run whatever "trick" play they wanted...even though it was surprising they might try it under these circumstances (Team A up by...well...a bunch). As Texref stated above, once we saw Team A's alignment (all 4 non-throwers in Team A's BC), I took up a position at mid-court near the table. From this position I could: 1.) Watch the non-throwers during the throw-in; and, 2.) Follow the players on any break to Team A's basket during the anticipated "Hail Mary" throw-in.

I remember still being puzzled by Team A's alignment as the throw-in was occurring. Then when the throw-in went into the BC...I remember trying to look for a different type of play. Maybe Team A was trying something different due to all the new players that had just come off the bench. Some of you may know the feeling...as an unusual or unexpected play unfolds. There's not much time to really THINK about what's happening...just that it feels really wrong.

But then Player A1 pulled up suddenly...from maybe 4 to 6 feet behind the 3-point line...and drained it. I think Texref was correct when he said that there was about 7:53 on the clock when we blew the play dead. If you estimate that the shooting motion and ball flight took up about 2 or 3 of the 7 seconds that ran off the clock...that would mean we only had about 4 or 5 seconds to figure out that Team A: 1.) Was not running the expected "Hail Mary" play; 2.) Did not have an alternate play in mind (to free up a player going toward their basket); and, 3.) Team A really was trying to go for the wrong bucket. I should have been the one to blow the play dead...

As I said previously, it 's possible that the early game might have caused my reflexes to be slower than normal and I might otherwise have been quick enough to blow the play in time. But I keep thinking about the night before...and the 3 OT's Texref and I had. Did I tell Texref...??? No, wait...I'm positive I told Texref about my no OT policy. Yes...I'm sure it's Texref's fault that this play unfolded the way it did. Whew...that was close...!!! I thought for a moment that maybe it was my fault...(JK).

OHBBREF · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:33pm

[QUOTE=Texref;554434]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

I thought about (in the future if this happens again) blowing it dead as soon as it is apparent that they believe they are going that way.

Again, please -site a rule, a case play or something that says after you told them the correct direction to go, that authorizes you to stop the action and prevent a team from going the wrong way?

jdmara · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:37pm

Before I hand the ball off to the thrower starting a period, I ALWAYS point the direction ("White ball going this direction" *insert pointing finger that way*). I do it just before I hand the ball off.

However if the thrower put the ball in play into the team's BC, there is nothing to be done. I don't believe there is anything the official can do until there is a dead ball (ie made basket, violation, etc). If they inbound the ball into their FC and they run to their BC, we have a BC violation.

Just my two cents...

-Josh

Texref · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 05:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara

Before I hand the ball off to the thrower starting a period, I ALWAYS point the direction ("White ball going this direction" *insert pointing finger that way*). I do it just before I hand the ball off.

However if the thrower put the ball in play into the team's BC, there is nothing to be done. I don't believe there is anything the official can do until there is a dead ball (ie made basket, violation, etc). If they inbound the ball into their FC and they run to their BC, we have a BC violation.

Just my two cents...

-Josh

I do the same thing. Unfortunately they did not throw the ball into their front court, which is what usually happens when lined up for the trick play, they threw it in their backcourt and proceeded to play there. They got the shot off prior to a 10 second backcourt count.

I believe that what we can stop play and not permit them to continue the wrong direction(s) if it is obvious, as it was in this case, that everybody is going the wrong direction. If we don't stop it and know it, then I believe, 3% worth anyways

, that we have permitted both teams to play in the wrong direction and therefore my ruling on the floor was correct.

Rich · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 06:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara

Before I hand the ball off to the thrower starting a period, I ALWAYS point the direction ("White ball going this direction" *insert pointing finger that way*). I do it just before I hand the ball off.

However if the thrower put the ball in play into the team's BC, there is nothing to be done. I don't believe there is anything the official can do until there is a dead ball (ie made basket, violation, etc). If they inbound the ball into their FC and they run to their BC, we have a BC violation.

Just my two cents...

-Josh

What's more, if I'm getting the defending team out of the huddle, I'll tell them which way we're going, too (white ball coming this way, for example). If I'm the R, I'm pointing before the teams are set and pointing again before putting it in play and being quite vocal about it.

After we tell the teams a few times which way we're going I'm also going to be the lead in the proper frontcourt -- I'm not part of any kind of trickery like this.

Juulie Downs · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 07:14pm

This happened at the beginning of the 4th quarter? I'm having a hard time seeing how they could end up going the wrong way by accident. What level is it? I see them roaming around in the BC (and they're ahead by 50!?!) , I'm counting. They shoot, team B gets the points, and A gets the ball and another 10 seconds to get the ball into the FC. If they do it again, I'm calling it unsportsmanlike and assessing a T.

Texref · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 08:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

This happened at the beginning of the 4th quarter? I'm having a hard time seeing how they could end up going the wrong way by accident. What level is it? I see them roaming around in the BC (and they're ahead by 50!?!) , I'm counting. They shoot, team B gets the points, and A gets the ball and another 10 seconds to get the ball into the FC. If they do it again, I'm calling it unsportsmanlike and assessing a T.

This was a varsity boys game! Team A (team ahead by about 50) put their third stringers in the game (they had 15 in the book!

). They weren't roaming, they were running a play and Team B was playing defense. I don't disagree with you by giving Team B the points and Team A the ball. That is what my partner said on the floor. After the game we ran it by the other officials replacing us and the other two crews (tournament setting) that were there. They all said they would have given Team B the points and Team A the ball.

Texref · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 01, 2008, 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN

What's more, if I'm getting the defending team out of the huddle, I'll tell them which way we're going, too (white ball coming this way, for example). If I'm the R, I'm pointing before the teams are set and pointing again before putting it in play and being quite vocal about it.

After we tell the teams a few times which way we're going I'm also going to be the lead in the proper frontcourt -- I'm not part of any kind of trickery like this.

Ok, so what would you do in the play in question. I'm not really looking for ways to avoid it in the future as I already point the direction and line up correctly, even if the team says they are running the trick play.