Backcourt Question

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

Once I posted this I remembered that under NFHS, there is no team control when a throw-in starts (unlike NCAA).

Despite that fact, you still can't start this count in an NCAA game.

9-10

An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a
ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Despite that fact, you still can't start this count in an NCAA game.

9-10

An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a
ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds.

Nevada, this seams to read that once the ball is in bounds, and team control is ongoing, the count should start. So, once the ball touches a player or the floor, should the count not start?

[Nevadaref]

That's not my understanding.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's not my understanding.

Okay, I was just going by the wording of the rule you posted.

If the supervisors want it called differently, ok.

[Nevadaref]

I'm going by the wording of the rule too.

Which inbounds player do you believe is in control of the ball in this situation?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm going by the wording of the rule too.

Which inbounds player do you believe is in control of the ball in this situation?

The rule says "(and his team)," it's the same clause that makes it a violation, even though one player may only hold the ball for 3 or 4 seconds at a time, for the team to have the ball in the BC for 10 seconds. With team control already established, I'm unsure why the 10 seconds for the team doesn't start immediately upon the ball gaining inbounds status.

Unless it says somewhere that "player control" must be established first.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The rule says "(and his team)," it's the same clause that makes it a violation, even though one player may only hold the ball for 3 or 4 seconds at a time, for the team to have the ball in the BC for 10 seconds. With team control already established, I'm unsure why the 10 seconds for the team doesn't start immediately upon the ball gaining inbounds status.

Unless it says somewhere that "player control" must be established first.

The inclusion of the word "inbounds" was specifically put there for this purpose.

A1 is the thrower. A1 is standing OOB adjacent to Team A's backcourt. A1 makes a throw-in pass to towards A2. (a) A2 deflects the ball to the floor in Team A's backcourt, (b) B2 touches the ball and it bounces on the floor in Team A's backcourt.
Should the ten second count be started?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The inclusion of the word "inbounds" was specifically put there for this purpose.

A1 is the thrower. A1 is standing OOB adjacent to Team A's backcourt. A1 makes a throw-in pass to towards A2. (a) A2 deflects the ball to the floor in Team A's backcourt, (b) B2 touches the ball and it bounces on the floor in Team A's backcourt.
Should the ten second count be started?

The ball is inbounds, the team has control, what else is required by rule?

You know me, I'm trying to figure this out.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The ball is inbounds, the team has control, what else is required by rule?

You know me, I'm trying to figure this out.

I believe that the problem stems from the team control foul rule that was put in back in 2002-03 and the adding of team control during a throw-in the following season 2003-04.
There was even a rule (4-64-5) that said the following: "The throw-in shall end when the passed ball is controlled by an inbounds player other than the thrower-in."

The whole idea was to avoid altering how the 10-second count worked. That particular rule disappeared rather quickly.
In fact, the wording of these rules has shifted so much since then that it is difficult to even discern the original meaning when looking at today's rules book. However, to my knowledge, the NCAA has never put out anything saying that the concept of the 10-second backcourt count has changed.

At the moment I don't know of anything that specifically instructs the official when to begin the 10-second count following a throw-in. Perhaps it is in the NCAA mechanics manual.

The best way that I can put it to you is to ask you how the inclusion of the word "inbounds" changes the application of the rule and why it is there. If it were removed would it make a difference to you?

[Adam]

Given that all areas out of bounds are neither FC nor BC, it makes sense that their intent is to have player control required prior to the beginning of the 10 second count. I think the rule does not say this, but I'm also confident that any official starting the count earlier than that is risking his/her status at whatever level they make this mistake.