Pregame Dunks

[just another ref]

Fifteen minutes prior to the game two team members of team A dunk with both the coach and official as witnesses. When coach submits his squad list, he deliberately omits the names of the violators. Official assesses a technical foul for each act of dunking as team fouls and charges the coach with two indirect technical fouls. This ruling is correct.*


We kicked this question around last year, and failed to reach an agreement on the correct answer. Well, the question was on our study guide again, and appeared on the test this time. Our discussion at our meeting last week gave me a different perspective on this question. Last year here the question seemed to center around whether the coach could declare by omission: "These guys are not team members." Some high profile, knowledgeable, forum members said that he could.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Smart coaching move. It seems to me that the coach is saying that those kids are not team members for this contest. There should be no technical fouls charged. The rule says that it applies to all "team members."

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

When the players dunked at the 15 minute mark, the calling official by rule was supposed to inform the players and their head coach that they each just got a "T". That's when you find out whether they were actually team members or not. If the coach says they are, give 'em 'T"s, If the coach says they aren't, run 'em off the floor.

Well, as we read the question again, we find that they are team members. It's a given. Is the point of the question how the technical fouls should be charged? If these guys names are not in the book, the fouls obviously cannot be charged to them as individual players. Therefore they are charged only as team fouls, and also as indirects to the head coach. I put true for the question, but with a limited amount of confidence. The only other alternative I see is that the official says these guys must appear in the book, whether the coach likes it or not. I see no rule which gives an official the authority to do this, with the exception of the ever-present 2-3.

[chartrusepengui]

Were the two offenders in uniform and doing warm-ups with the rest of the team? If so - I believe I would rule them to be team members. If not they should not have been in uniform nor allowed (by coaches/officials) to warm-up with the rest of the team. I think I'd tell the coach if he hadn't submitted his entire roster by the 10 min mark I'd also have to hit him with a T for adding them later.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Were the two offenders in uniform and doing warm-ups with the rest of the team? If so - I believe I would rule them to be team members. If not they should not have been in uniform nor allowed (by coaches/officials) to warm-up with the rest of the team. I think I'd tell the coach if he hadn't submitted his entire roster by the 10 min mark I'd also have to hit him with a T for adding them later.

This situation is most likely to occur in a JV game; for a variety of reasons. That said, it's not uncommon to see a few varsity players warming up with the JV kids, especially on road games with smaller schools.

[chartrusepengui]

I agree about the JV but in our area if those players are on varsity they are also on JV and playing a couple quarters each way. Still team members. Also, if that's the case the uniforms would be different - at least in my area.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I agree about the JV but in our area if those players are on varsity they are also on JV and playing a couple quarters each way. Still team members. Also, if that's the case the uniforms would be different - at least in my area.

Not always the case, though. I've seen a lot of kids warm up with the JV, then they don't show up at all during the game, not even on the bench. And while the uniforms may or may not be different, you might not know if they've all got the same warmup suit on.

[just another ref]

So is it true or false?