Bench Personnel?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

When a team member checks in during a TO & then returns to the huddle, are they not still bench personnel until the TO is over?

Hmmm...are they? I don't have my book at the moment. This is one I definitely should know, but I'm not sure.

Now that I think about it, you may very well be right, and that's going to make this situation a whole lot easier...

[JS 20]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Hmmm...are they? I don't have my book at the moment. This is one I definitely should know, but I'm not sure.

Now that I think about it, you may very well be right, and that's going to make this situation a whole lot easier...

I looked through the book and couldn't find anything specific enough to cite on this.

However, I would say they're in the game and now considered players. My logic behind that is, let's say A6 goes and checks in for A1. A1 can't go out on the court after the TO is over b/c he/she was replaced and can't reenter until the clock has started. So I'd say you have to consider the subs players and the players who were replaced are now bench personnel.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by JS 20

I looked through the book and couldn't find anything specific enough to cite on this.

However, I would say they're in the game and now considered players. My logic behind that is, let's say A6 goes and checks in for A1. A1 can't go out on the court after the TO is over b/c he/she was replaced and can't reenter until the clock has started. So I'd say you have to consider the subs players and the players who were replaced are now bench personnel.

I thought there was a case play on this, but I can't find it..per 4-34-1 a substitute does not become a player until either 1) they legally enter the court or 2) if entry is not legal, they are a player once the ball becomes live...since the sub in this case has not yet entered the court they can't be a player - therefore that would still make them bench personnel....that's my reasoning anyways

Originally Posted by JS 20

I looked through the book and couldn't find anything specific enough to cite on this.

However, I would say they're in the game and now considered players. My logic behind that is, let's say A6 goes and checks in for A1. A1 can't go out on the court after the TO is over b/c he/she was replaced and can't reenter until the clock has started. So I'd say you have to consider the subs players and the players who were replaced are now bench personnel.

Oh really? I thought a player became bench personnel when the substitute entered the game unless the player was DQd, then the player becomes bench personnel when you tell the coach.

I also thought that during intermission, TOs all team members were considered bench personnel.

I could be wrong, surely someone will come along & let me know Maybe even JR...

[JS 20]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Oh really? I thought a player became bench personnel when the substitute entered the game unless the player was DQd, then the player becomes bench personnel when you tell the coach.

I also thought that during intermission, TOs all team members were considered bench personnel.

I could be wrong, surely someone will come along & let me know Maybe even JR...

Well what's the definition of "entered then?

No, during intermission, everyone is BP, during a TO, the players in the game are not BP.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by JS 20

Well what's the definition of "entered then?

No, during intermission, everyone is BP, during a TO, the players in the game are not BP.

That is what my interp is as well, however, in the OP the substitutes had not yet entered the court so I would still have them as bench personnel. Do you have a rules/casebook citation on that? I thought it was somewhere, but couldn't find it...

[JS 20]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

That is what my interp is as well, however, in the OP the substitutes had not yet entered the court so I would still have them as bench personnel. Do you have a rules/casebook citation on that? I thought it was somewhere, but couldn't find it...

If your'e talking about a citation on the players not being BP during a TO, it's rule 4.34.1

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by JS 20

If your'e talking about a citation on the players not being BP during a TO, it's rule 4.34.1

Yeah the rule I have, but I thought there was a case play just like this..I agree with you that a player is not bench personnel during a timeout, but in this case where there is a substitution during the TO, the question is when does that sub become a player...depends on the definition of "enter the court" as you mentioned..

[JS 20]

I did find a caseplay where this happens during a normal dead ball and the official beckons the subs. It says the officials and scorer should try to figure out who A6,7,8 were replacing. If that can't be determined, you should rule them as bench personnel and assess the maximum penalty to the HC for the involvement of bench personnel.

[bob jenkins]

A6 is a player, so his fighting is not charged to the coach.

We don't know whether A1 and A2 are players or not (assuming the scorer doesn't know, etc), so case 3.3.1E tells us to assume they are NOT players. Charge the coach with two indirect Ts.

Originally Posted by JS 20

If your'e talking about a citation on the players not being BP during a TO, it's rule 4.34.1

Rule (-) or casebook (.)

Guess I'll have to take the 8 flights down to the parking garage to get my book out the car on lunch.