Thrown into the fire...

[Coltdoggs]

Man...day started out with absolute crazy game for me yesterday....

I got pulled into the second half of a crazy azhed 7th grade game yesterday during a travel team tournament. Went from 2-man to 3-man with 12:00 left in the second half (14:00 halves). I became the 3rd ref Not a good sitch to enter into, for sure....I was supposed to be working my own game on another court but had a forefit when one team was a no-show so I got to watch this mess unfold from two perspectives.

Game was a bit out of control during the 1st half...fans yelling, coaches yelling, players tempers flaring (there was a dead ball scrimmish that probably should have resulted in double Ts, but I was not on the court at that time).

At halftime, after the scorekeeper walked from table to bleachers, stood on bleachers and repeatedly shouted "SHUT UP...YOU DO THE SCORE THEN!" at some other idiot parent who kept chastising him cause the "SCORE AIN'T RIGHT!"...dude wasn't even working the clock...he was doing the book!

As I stood there and watched this I ended up going to the offices and told one of the facility owners....the boys league admin had finally made his presence to the court during this time and got things calmed down for at least the moment.....they started the 2nd half with the same two refs and the pot began to boil with again.....League Admin asked me if I'd jump in and we'd finish the game with 3 refs....I said sure, knowing I was going into the fire and feeling bad for my two Ps as it probably made them look bad to everybody in the place....but they really needed a 3rd set of eyes....

I wasn't 3 minutes in and one of the coaches was riding my butt(the other guy really wasn't that bad)...this guy however was your typical AAUHole...

I became trail after his team missed a shot in the lane... I laid pretty far back (because the PG was way out near the half court line)...Coach is griping at me about not making calls at his offensive end (they were on D now where I was trail)...told me "You need to get past half court don't you?...No wonder you are not making calls!"

I told him "Coach, calm down and coach your kids"...."I'll calm down when you get where you are supposed to be and make some calls!" was his response...

Now he's got me focused on him and not the game...I'm trying to watch and give this guy warning that I don't like where this is headed...He's right beside me at half court

I said, coach, "I'm not gonna hear any more from you about officiating....I saw enough of that in the first half from the sideline...focus on your kids".

He replies, "I'll focus if you get where you are supposed to be"...At this point, I stop signed him and told him "I have heard enough"...

Knowing he wouldn't shut his pie hole.....He uttered something else just as his team got the defensive rebound and I killed his fast break and whacked him! He tried to say something else as I was reporting and I cut him off with the stop sign again and said "Next one, you'll be watching from outside the gym".

He didn't say another word to any of the crew about the calls and focused on his kids, which I wanted. I did manage to have a calm convo with him shortly there after because there was a scoring discrpancy...he and I were on the same page about the score so I felt good about that interaction which was calm.

Parents were on my case about the T (not that I cared...it needed to be done)...Again, I felt bad for my Ps cause I came in late and I was the one who had to do the dirty work....

Coach I T'd up, his team ended up losing by 4....of course it was our fault cause "They (meaning refs) was ready to go home for the day" .....Yeah...we only had 3 more games after that one that each of us were working....this was the first of the day for us!

Rest of the day was pretty much decent coaches who actually focused on their kids and if they had a question about a call...they simply asked.

Some guys get it....some don't....

[26 Year Gap]

He shouldn't be watching from outside the gym. He shouldn't even be visible.

Sounds like a bad scene all the way around. GM should have tossed the fan who was keeping score from the stands. If he had done that at halftime, chances are some of the other stuff would not have happened.

[Nevadaref]

Tell the coach that right now this is where you are supposed to be.

Then tell the coach that he needs to be in his coaching area.

If he doesn't comply, then whack him.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

He shouldn't be watching from outside the gym. He shouldn't even be visible.

Sounds like a bad scene all the way around. GM should have tossed the fan who was keeping score from the stands. If he had done that at halftime, chances are some of the other stuff would not have happened.

First time I had seen him...and I've done quite a few games there...

In GMs defense...he was only given a second hand account of what happened and what was said...They did replace the score keepers with two new ones at halftime (hence our scoring issue in the 2H). I guess the two that were yelling at each other ended up shaking hands...but man...it was really a mess.

With about 8:00 left the main owner of the facility (who also coaches a team) ...he arrived and came over and hudled the 3 refs and two coaches and laid it out that we were on zero tolerance for the balance of the game...he said the 3 refs now had his permission to stop the game and declare it over if the coaches, fans or players were out of line in anyway....luckily the game finished with coaches and players heads on striaght....fans, well...they were fans still but nothing like the first half.

[Back In The Saddle]

Perhaps I had to be there, but it seems to me you took about two ultimatums too long to whack this guy. He's out of his box at midcourt, distracting you, complaining about no-calls, telling you where you need to be, and talking back. The only thing that changes the behavior of coaches like this is the T. The quicker you get there, the quicker the game gets better.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I killed his fast break and whacked him!

Nice !!!

We just had a thread on the "unfairness" of the penalty in the aftermath of a technical foul, but after hearing your story, thank God for the penalty as it stands. Fair, or unfair, he got what he deserved.

[Texas Aggie]

only thing that changes the behavior of coaches like this is the T

I think this is not only a true statement, it is something that takes way too long for many (not only including, but especially me) to learn. Be smart but be firm -- he has no business telling you where you need to be.

[aschramm]

I just love coming over to the basketball board and listening about you guys "whacking" a coach or player...sounds more exciting than ejecting someone in baseball. Almost makes me want to get into basketball for that. Maybe in a few years though...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by aschramm

I just love coming over to the basketball board and listening about you guys "whacking" a coach or player...sounds more exciting than ejecting someone in baseball. Almost makes me want to get into basketball for that. Maybe in a few years though...

We don't have the, "You're Out Of Here", ejction signal. Now that's exciting. It would be nice if the NFHS aded that to their signal chart.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Perhaps I had to be there, but it seems to me you took about two ultimatums too long to whack this guy. He's out of his box at midcourt, distracting you, complaining about no-calls,

Exactly my thought. I realize that you probably didn't want to jump right in and be the one to whack the guy, but he desparately needed it.

Bad situation all around. Sounds like it ended about as well as you could hope.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Exactly my thought. I realize that you probably didn't want to jump right in and be the one to whack the guy, but he desparately needed it.

Bad situation all around. Sounds like it ended about as well as you could hope.

That was ultimatley what I was feeling...I just came into the game and here I am the "bad guy". It was almost as if I was sent just for the purpose of pulling the T out on the guy...I certainly didn't wan't it to go that way but that's what happened and it was certainly needed.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

....League Admin asked me if I'd jump in and we'd finish the game with 3 refs....I said sure, knowing I was going into the fire and feeling bad for my two Ps as it probably made them look bad to everybody in the place....but they really needed a 3rd set of eyes......

I could see it if it was a V or maybe, maybe, a JV game, that for whatever reason, only had 2 officials, but 7th grade?
It sounds like you didnt know the officials and its possible that they didnt know 3 man mechanics, which adds another mental element to their "game".
We've all had crazy games like this, and at this level, how would you feel if an "unknown to you" official injected themselves into your game? What did your P's say after the game?
League Admin can ask all they want, but asking is 1 thing, getting another.....
Considering that the 2nd half was a continuation of the 1st, your presence didnt change things much so....no good deed goes unpunished..

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We don't have the, "You're Out Of Here", ejction signal. Now that's exciting. It would be nice if the NFHS aded that to their signal chart.

We don't have that signal? Maybe you should ask Trent Johnson (fomer Stanford Coach, now at LSU) or Curtis Shaw... I think they would disagree

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by archangel

I could see it if it was a V or maybe, maybe, a JV game, that for whatever reason, only had 2 officials, but 7th grade?
It sounds like you didnt know the officials and its possible that they didnt know 3 man mechanics, which adds another mental element to their "game".
We've all had crazy games like this, and at this level, how would you feel if an "unknown to you" official injected themselves into your game? What did your P's say after the game?
League Admin can ask all they want, but asking is 1 thing, getting another.....
Considering that the 2nd half was a continuation of the 1st, your presence didnt change things much so....no good deed goes unpunished..

Arch..I knew both Ps...worked with them both before on 2-man at this place...They are both good guys and good officials....one does HS and is more familiar w/ 3-man than I...I agree not having the total comfort of 3-man rotation was in my head...but we made the best of it and made it work.

Ps were a bit pissed at game admin for adding the 3rd official...I woulda felt the same way and I felt bad going into it in the middle of the game...but they didn't hold me accountable for that. As for the T, they both said it was warranted. I was just curious why they didn't T him in the first half....it appeared to me they had a few opportunities..

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We don't have the, "You're Out Of Here", ejction signal. Now that's exciting. It would be nice if the NFHS aded that to their signal chart.

Not a problem, I'd just love to do the whacking mechanic for a T. But now after doing football, I might try to reach for a flag instead