Shooting sleeves

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by refnrev

One more example of "I don't want to be the fashion police anymore." Braces, etc I'm fine with checking to make sure they conform, but I'm tired of stuff like this.

How is that any different than being the traveling police? As an official you have duties to preform, some of them include watching for traveling and other violations as well as making sure that the players' equipment is legal.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

How is that any different than being the traveling police? As an official you have duties to preform, some of them include watching for traveling and other violations as well as making sure that the players' equipment is legal.

It's different because missing a foul or a violation or misapplying a rule could have a huge impact on the game in a key situation.

Such is not the case when dealing with a kid wearing a head band that's the wrong color.

That's why it's different.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's different because missing a foul or a violation or misapplying a rule could have a huge impact on the game in a key situation.
Such is not the case when dealing with a kid wearing a head band that's the wrong color. That's why it's different.

I agree that missing a foul or violation is not the same as dealing with a kid wearing the wrong color headband, but I disagree with the part about it not impacting the game. Here's a once in a lifetime scenario:

A-1, the best foul shooter in the league, is one the line for a one-and-one with 0.3 seconds left in the game, his team down one point.
Team A has no remaining time outs.
Coach B points out to the officials that A-1, whose uniform is white, is wearing a blue headband, and he wants him removed from the game, to remove his headband, and to sit out a tick as the rules state.

Do you ignore Coach B's request completely, allow A-1 to wear the headband, and to shoot the free throw(s)?
Do you half-comply with Coach B's request, and simply have A-1 remove the headband, toss it to the bench, and then shoot the free throw(s).
Knowing that Coach B seems to know the rule, he states that another official made one of his players sit out a tick for an untucked jersey a few days ago in a blowout game, do you make A-1 sit a tick?

If I'm the official, I'm probably going with the second option, but I'm not sure that the rules would back me 100%.

[daggo66]

What possible medical reason? Stop making excuses and justifying your actions. Either they are legal or not.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I agree that missing a foul or violation is not the same as dealing with a kid wearing the wrong color headband, but I disagree with the part about it not impacting the game. Here's a once in a lifetime scenario:

A-1, the best foul shooter in the league, is one the line for a one-and-one with 0.3 seconds left in the game, his team down one point.
Team A has no remaining time outs.
Coach B points out to the officials that A-1, whose uniform is white, is wearing a blue headband, and he wants him removed from the game, to remove his headband, and to sit out a tick as the rules state.

Do you ignore Coach B's request completely, allow A-1 to wear the headband, and to shoot the free throw(s)?
Do you half-comply with Coach B's request, and simply have A-1 remove the headband, toss it to the bench, and then shoot the free throw(s).
Knowing that Coach B seems to know the rule, he states that another official made one of his players sit out a tick for an untucked jersey a few days ago in a blowout game, do you make A-1 sit a tick?

If I'm the official, I'm probably going with the second option, but I'm not sure that the rules would back me 100%.

A1 is compliant with the rules after simply removing the headband. If the game isn't delayed, A1 also can stay on the floor without penalty or substitution required. There is NO rules justification to have A1 removed from the game. It's no different than discovering a player wearing jewelry on the court.

Iow, that situation doesn't impact the game.

[co2ice]

BillyMac thats why you tell the kid in warm ups to take it off. Had a sits this last year wher a kid had a sleve on during warm ups and I asked him if he had a medical reason for the sleve, he pulled it down and showed me about 25 stitches across his elbow. I let him keep the sleve. Secondly the untucked shirt thing you only remove the kid after repeated warnings, thats why you take care of business in the warm ups or as soon as the kid steps on the court not in the last moments of the game, if you warn him to remove an article and he doesnt then you remove him.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

A1 is compliant with the rules after simply removing the headband. If the game isn't delayed, A1 also can stay on the floor without penalty or substitution required. There is NO rules justification to have A1 removed from the game. It's no different than discovering a player wearing jewelry on the court. That situation doesn't impact the game.

Thanks for the correction. This will teach me to not make a quick, unresearched, post before I go to work in the morning. I was thinking about my post all day at work and I knew that it would generate a few "corrections" by the time I got home from work. I think that I was confusing this situation with casebook play 3.4.15 Situation C, and even in that situation, the player gets to take the foul shot before he is removed.

At least, if I were the official in the game, I would have gone with my second option, and simply have A-1 remove the headband, toss it to the bench, and then shoot the free throw(s).

3.4.15 Situation C: B1 fouls A1. Just before A1 goes to the line for a one-and-one, the official observes: (a) A1 either pulls the shirt out of his/her pants; or (b) that A1’s pants are partially below the hips.
Ruling: In both (a) and (b), A1 will be directed to put the shirt in the pants or pull up the pants and must leave the game immediately following his/her last free throw(s). The lane is cleared and it will be B’s ball for a throw-in, whether or not the last free throw is successful.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

3.4.15 Situation C: B1 fouls A1. Just before A1 goes to the line for a one-and-one, the official observes: (a) A1 either pulls the shirt out of his/her pants; or (b) that A1’s pants are partially below the hips.
Ruling: In both (a) and (b), A1 will be directed to put the shirt in the pants or pull up the pants and must leave the game immediately following his/her last free throw(s). The lane is cleared and it will be B’s ball for a throw-in, whether or not the last free throw is successful.

This has been discussed here before. Somebody pointed out that if the player did not shoot the free throws in this situation, then all a coach would have to do is tell his weak free throw shooter to pull his shirt out every time he got fouled.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This has been discussed here before. Somebody pointed out that if the player did not shoot the free throws in this situation, then all a coach would have to do is tell his weak free throw shooter to pull his shirt out every time he got fouled.

Good point.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A-1, the best foul shooter in the league, is one the line for a one-and-one with 0.3 seconds left in the game, his team down one point.
Team A has no remaining time outs.
Coach B points out to the officials that A-1, whose uniform is white, is wearing a blue headband, and he wants him removed from the game, to remove his headband, and to sit out a tick as the rules state.

Do you ignore Coach B's request completely, allow A-1 to wear the headband, and to shoot the free throw(s)?
Do you half-comply with Coach B's request, and simply have A-1 remove the headband, toss it to the bench, and then shoot the free throw(s).
Knowing that Coach B seems to know the rule, he states that another official made one of his players sit out a tick for an untucked jersey a few days ago in a blowout game, do you make A-1 sit a tick?

If I'm the official, I'm probably going with the second option, but I'm not sure that the rules would back me 100%.

If you know the rule, you'll tell coach B you'll take care of it. Tell A1 to lose the headband quickly and get back to the line. Just because coach B acts like he knows the rule doesn't mean he's right. 2nd option is not just the common sense approach; it's the only approach supported by rule.

I can't see ever making any decision based on the fact that "coach seems to know the rule."