Ref chokes coach

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Race has something to do with just about everything. Just because someone did not use a specific word or come out and say certain things does not dismiss the fact that it plays a big role. Just look at the Presidential Race and how race has been a factor, but people try to act like it has not by stating the obvious. People think because we celebrate a holiday or certain laws have been changed the backdrop of this issue has gone away. It has not.

Peace

This is where we diverge, I think. I'll agree that race is playing a role in the campaign, but I don't think anyone thinks the "backdrop" has gone away. It has changed, inarguably for the better, over the past 50 years. But no one says it's gone away. The debate is on how best to proceed from here.

That said, if indeed the coach engaged in a bit of race baiting, I put the bulk of the blame on him because he knew very well what he was doing. If he didn't, he had every responsibility to foresee it. Again, that's "if" he was race baiting.

I'm sure the official, if he had it to do over again, would have restrained himself. I could be wrong, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the official here (based on my own strongly set biases) over the coach. I've known some hotheaded officials, but none who would get physical without significant provocation; regardless of their skin color.

[grunewar]

What an unbelievably sad story for both sides......and we're all supposed to be in it for the kids? Especially at this level? Wonder what the kids saw and/or heard? Very disappointing. Wow!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This is where we diverge, I think. I'll agree that race is playing a role in the campaign, but I don't think anyone thinks the "backdrop" has gone away. It has changed, inarguably for the better, over the past 50 years. But no one says it's gone away. The debate is on how best to proceed from here.

That said, if indeed the coach engaged in a bit of race baiting, I put the bulk of the blame on him because he knew very well what he was doing. If he didn't, he had every responsibility to foresee it. Again, that's "if" he was race baiting.

I'm sure the official, if he had it to do over again, would have restrained himself. I could be wrong, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the official here (based on my own strongly set biases) over the coach. I've known some hotheaded officials, but none who would get physical without significant provocation; regardless of their skin color.

We really do not disagree at all.

I hope that it was not the case where the coach used any kind of language, but something tells me that is the case. Of course I have no idea for sure, but I have a hunch.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Lock it. Lock it NOW!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Without commenting specifically on this instance, since none of us know the context, let me say that there are some things that, if said to me by another person in a certain context, will result in me imparting physical harm upon that person. The number of topics and the context is quite limited, but there are some. Fortunately, the number of instances that this has happened in my life is extremely low, but it has happened and I make no apologies for it.

BTW - I'm being uncharacteristically serious here.

I completely agree from my point of view. The conversation might not be on the court (field or diamond), but it would likely happen. Or at the very least the person would know very soon how I felt outside of the arena those comments took place.

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

Gotta agree with one of the comments in the discussion thread under the article.

That ref DOES look a lot like Tone Loc.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We really do not disagree at all.

I hope that it was not the case where the coach used any kind of language, but something tells me that is the case. Of course I have no idea for sure, but I have a hunch.

Peace

My hunch is the same as yours. It just doesn't smell right.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

That ref DOES look a lot like Tone Loc.

And the coach looks like he's doing the Funky Cold Medina

[loners4me]

IMO, it doesn't matter what was said. I don't care if the coach used every racial slur he knew.

Self restraint must be used.

That ref should be de-patched & prosecuted.

Name calling is exactly that..name calling.

bad move Tone Loc

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why, are there a bunch of typos or something? My guess is race had everything to do with it. People don't just up and choke someone for no reason. My guess is the coach said something extraordinarily provocative. But it's only a guess.

And a completely unfounded guess. There was absolutely nothing in the article or photo that gives any indication that race was involved aside from the obvious point that one person was white and one was black. While racial insults certainly could have been the trigger, I could think of at least a few equally inflamitory actions that could be just as likely....e.g. insults/comments about his daughter/wife/mother without reference to race. It would be just as ignorant and stupid to suggest that the official couldn't restrain himself because of his race. Let's not make something about race merely because it is possible.

Put simply, we don't have enough info to make any conclusions about what led to the incident. But, unless the coach grabbed the officials hands and put them there, the official should lose his officiating credientials.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And a completely unfounded guess. There was absolutely nothing in the article or photo that gives any indication that race was involved aside from the obvious point that one person was white and one was black. While racial insults certainly could have been the trigger, I could think of at least a few equally inflamitory actions that could be just as likely....e.g. insults/comments about his daughter/wife/mother without reference to race. It would be just as ignorant and stupid to suggest that the official couldn't restrain himself because of his race. Let's not make something about race merely because it is possilbe.

Put simply, we don't have enough info to make any conclusions about what led to the incident. But, unless the coach grabbed the officials hands and put them there, the official should lose his officiating credientials.

I agree with the first paragraph - it is very well put!

With the bold text, I agree only if in the same region, a coach looses his coaching credentials, if the situation was reversed. If current policy is to suspend a coach for a year, then the official could be permitted the same punishment.

[Adam]

You may well be right, Cameron. It’s possible the official was just having a bad day. Or it’s possible that he’s a psychopath who was just looking for an excuse to choke a coach. There are all sorts of potential explanations.

Maybe the coach said something about the official’s wife and kids. We don’t know. I do know that few things generate more emotional reactions than racially charged provocations. Personally, when someone who doesn’t know my wife/kids/mother makes some stupid insult, I chalk it up to ignorance. Of course, I understand some folks have different triggers than I do.

I’m not willing to say, however, that regardless of how the coach may have provoked him, the official should lose his credentials. An investigation should be completed, and loss of his officiating license should be on the table.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And a completely unfounded guess. There was absolutely nothing in the article or photo that gives any indication that race was involved aside from the obvious point that one person was white and one was black. While racial insults certainly could have been the trigger, I could think of at least a few equally inflamitory actions that could be just as likely....e.g. insults/comments about his daughter/wife/mother without reference to race. It would be just as ignorant and stupid to suggest that the official couldn't restrain himself because of his race. Let's not make something about race merely because it is possible.

Put simply, we don't have enough info to make any conclusions about what led to the incident. But, unless the coach grabbed the officials hands and put them there, the official should lose his officiating credientials.

Just because you do not want to go there, does not mean that others (with their life experience) cannot draw their own conclusion. I do know one thing as an official I have never seen another official yell and scream at a coach in order and then assault them. So I can come to a conclusion that the coach must have said something. And for someone to go that far that coach likely said something over the top. I have never even seen the most inexperienced official react “that way” over just some normal words or comments. I will stick with my assumption at this point and something was confirmed the suggestion of the article.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I’m not willing to say, however, that regardless of how the coach may have provoked him, the official should lose his credentials. An investigation should be completed, and loss of his officiating license should be on the table.

And I know someone will twist what I am saying here, so I also agree that if the official were to be brought to charges that would be perfectly OK with me. And I would also have no problem if he was banned from officiating in many areas and many sports as well. Just like any crime there is always a motive part of the discussion, it does not mean the motive is right.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just because you do not want to go there, does not mean that others (with their life experience) cannot draw their own conclusion. I do know one thing as an official I have never seen another official yell and scream at a coach in order and then assault them. So I can come to a conclusion that the coach must have said something. And for someone to go that far that coach likely said something over the top. I have never even seen the most inexperienced official react “that way” over just some normal words or comments. I will stick with my assumption at this point and something was confirmed the suggestion of the article.

Peace

It's not that I don't want to go there. You're making up what "might" have happened out of thin air. You show me even one report by any witness (even the official himself) where the coach is claimed to have said something even remotely racial and I'll conceed....just one. Until then, it is, with absolutely no evidence to suggest racism aside from the races of the parties involved, just as wrong to judge someone of being a racist as it is to actually be racist.

Could he have thrown some unacceptable racist language? Quite possibly, maybe even likely. For all any of us know from what was in the article, he could have been calling the guy a follicularly challenged fag.

Instead of convicting him of being a racist for being white, perhaps we should find out what he actually said.