what is the official ruling

[charleshaddon81]

So in an 18 under AAU basketball game, the guard is being heavily defended by a taller player. He gives a pump fake to the defender and drives left towards the basket. The defender gets back into position but his hands are on the players hips. It does not look like he changed the momentum of the gaurd dribbling the ball, but none the less, I heard it from 2 coaches that the any time the defender places his hands on the hips of the man dribbling the basketball it is a foul. I thought as long as the players momentum was not impeaded that it was not a foul, or is any touching to the hips, whether it slows momentum down or not a foul?

Thanks.

[BillyMac]

NFHS 2008-09 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

B. Hand-checking. Defenders are not permitted to have hands on the dribbler or offensive players away from the ball. Hand-checking is not incidental contact; it gives a tremendous advantage to the person using illegal hands/tactics. An offensive player who uses his/her hands or body to push off in order to create a more favorable position has committed a foul. Regardless of where it happens on the floor, when a player:
1) Continuously places a hand on the opposing player – it is a foul.
2) Places both hands on a player – it is a foul.
3) Continuously jabs a hand or forearm on an opponent – it is a foul.

That said, here are some things that I keep in mind regarding this situation:
Ball-Handler / Hand-Checking
Two hands on the ball-handler is a foul. Automatic.
One hand that stays on the dribbler is a foul.
Remember RSBQ. If the dribbler’s Rythym, Speed, Balance, or Quickness are affected, we should have a hand-checking foul.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Remember RSBQ.

I do. I always try to have a Really Spicy BarbeQue after every game.

[JRutledge]

Unless I have missed something, the rules on incidental contact have not changed. So what the POE says or does not say did not change the rule. I for one am not going to be calling a hand check foul only because of the touching of a dribbler. You still have to direct or move that player in some way.

It sounds to me like the NF is trying to use a NCAA Women's philosophy for all levels when it does not work very well in Boy's basketball. And I do not think it is practical to call it that way either. See the dirty little secret is that if you call it without some consideration of the affect on the play is going to bring more problems than calling it the way the POE is trying to suggest. At least in past POEs, the rules on incidental contact were always referenced.

Peace

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I have missed something, the rules on incidental contact have not changed. So what the POE says or does not say did not change the rule. I for one am not going to be calling a hand check foul only because of the touching of a dribbler. You still have to direct or move that player in some way.

It sounds to me like the NF is trying to use a NCAA Women's philosophy for all levels when it does not work very well in Boy's basketball. And I do not think it is practical to call it that way either. See the dirty little secret is that if you call it without some consideration of the affect on the play is going to bring more problems than calling it the way the POE is trying to suggest. At least in past POEs, the rules on incidental contact were always referenced.

Peace

I believe that the guidelines (not philosophy) of the women is as close to getting it right as the college game will get it and I also believe it is the best way to referee at the men's level as well, imo of course

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I believe that the guidelines (not philosophy) of the women is as close to getting it right as the college game will get it and I also believe it is the best way to referee at the men's level as well, imo of course

The guidelines for a situation where a defender places both hands on a player with the ball are exactly the same under NFHS and NCAA Mens and Womens rules. All three say that a foul should be called.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I have missed something, the rules on incidental contact have not changed. So what the POE says or does not say did not change the rule. I for one am not going to be calling a hand check foul only because of the touching of a dribbler. You still have to direct or move that player in some way.

It sounds to me like the NF is trying to use a NCAA Women's philosophy for all levels when it does not work very well in Boy's basketball. And I do not think it is practical to call it that way either. See the dirty little secret is that if you call it without some consideration of the affect on the play is going to bring more problems than calling it the way the POE is trying to suggest. At least in past POEs, the rules on incidental contact were always referenced.

So because you personally disagree with the new POE, you aren't going to follow it?
Is this another stance based upon the "college" viewpoint?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So because you personally disagree with the new POE, you aren't going to follow it?
Is this another stance based upon the "college" viewpoint?

It is a POE, not a rule. And the rulebook still wins out. And I will call what I did before as it relates to the rule. Also considering that I call a lot of hand checks over the course of the game, I think I am not the person the NF is trying to reach.

And actually my stance has little to do with any point of view other than the obvious one. The POE could have come right from the NCAA Women's College Guidelines. If that is how they want it to be called, change the rule.

Peace

[Adam]

Since it's hard to determine whether the player's direction or speed has been altered, it's generally best to call the hand-check quickly. It's also been an NFHS POE forever.