Hand ball...by the referee!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

By rule I think Bob is right. If the ball touching the ref is the same as the ball touching the spot where the ref was standing, then this would be the same as the throw-in pass touching the ground oob before going into the court. Ergo, violation D.

But I also think the right way to handle it is to not penalize A for this fluke. Blow it dead, and do it again.

Of course, that assumes the ball went inbounds. If it bounced back to the thrower or otherwise stayed OOB, it would be the same as the thrower dribbling the ball during the throwin...no violation!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Of course, that assumes the ball went inbounds. If it bounced back to the thrower or otherwise stayed OOB, it would be the same as the thrower dribbling the ball during the throwin...no violation!

Hmmm, hadn't thought about that one.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Of course, that assumes the ball went inbounds. If it bounced back to the thrower or otherwise stayed OOB, it would be the same as the thrower dribbling the ball during the throwin...no violation!

Actually, it doesn't matter where the ball went. What is important is if the official judges that the player was indeed making a throw-in pass. If that was the case, then a violation occurred.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Actually, it doesn't matter where the ball went. What is important is if the official judges that the player was indeed making a throw-in pass. If that was the case, then a violation occurred.

You wanna cite the rule and explain this a little further, please?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Actually, it doesn't matter where the ball went. What is important is if the official judges that the player was indeed making a throw-in pass. If that was the case, then a violation occurred.

Originally Posted by just another ref

You wanna cite the rule and explain this a little further, please?

Sure. The provisions that govern the throw-in which are listed in 9-2 place that restriction upon the THROW-IN PASS, not on any other action of the thrower such as bouncing the ball OOB at his side or making a pass to another OOB teammate. It would be incorrect to apply the rules governing the THROW-IN PASS to action which does not constitute such.
For example, we know that a player may throw a bounce pass to another OOB teammate following a made goal. That pass is not subject to the same restrictions as the THROW-IN PASS, which cannot bounce OOB before going to the teammate.

Therefore, it is imperative that the official first make a determination as to whether or not a player is attempting to make a throw-in pass or is just doing something else with the ball while OOB before he makes a decision upon the legality of the action.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Sure. The provisions that govern the throw-in which are listed in 9-2 place that restriction upon the THROW-IN PASS, not on any other action of the thrower such as bouncing the ball OOB at his side or making a pass to another OOB teammate. It would be incorrect to apply the rules governing the THROW-IN PASS to action which does not constitute such. For example, we know that a player may throw a bounce pass to another OOB teammate following a made goal. That pass is not subject to the same restrictions as the THROW-IN PASS, which cannot bounce OOB before going to the teammate.Therefore, it is imperative that the official first make a determination as to whether or not a player is attempting to make a throw-in pass or is just doing something else with the ball while OOB before he makes a decision upon the legality of the action.

Good post. Thanks for the reminder. Rookie officials. Take note.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Therefore, it is imperative that the official first make a determination as to whether or not a player is attempting to make a throw-in pass or is just doing something else with the ball while OOB before he makes a decision upon the legality of the action.

But the question is what makes a pass a pass. Picture this: Official hands A1 the ball from his left and, for whatever reason, hesitates before getting out of the way sufficiently. A1 looks right and snaps a quick no-look pass to his left. The ball strikes the hand of the official, who is clearly out of bounds, and bounces back to land in the hands of A1 again. There is no doubt that A1 intended for this to be a pass, but........ I think that it is ultimately the responsibility of the player to avoid the official, no matter how much he may be out of position. BUT, in an extreme example of "Oops, my bad! Why was I in the way?" I can see going with a redo.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But the question is what makes a pass a pass. Picture this: Official hands A1 the ball from his left and, for whatever reason, hesitates before getting out of the way sufficiently. A1 looks right and snaps a quick no-look pass to his left. The ball strikes the hand of the official, who is clearly out of bounds, and bounces back to land in the hands of A1 again...

Why would this be a violation? If the official is OOB then this would be the equivalent of A1 bouncing the ball OOB and retrieving it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why would this be a violation? If the official is OOB then this would be the equivalent of A1 bouncing the ball OOB and retrieving it.

That was my point. I posted that situation based on what Nevada had stated:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Actually, it doesn't matter where the ball went. What is important is if the official judges that the player was indeed making a throw-in pass. If that was the case, then a violation occurred.

............... it is imperative that the official first make a determination as to whether or not a player is attempting to make a throw-in pass or is just doing something else with the ball while OOB before he makes a decision upon the legality of the action.

I don't see that judgment of what the player is attempting to do is part of the equation here. If the ball hits the official and bounces back to the thrower, and touches nothing inbounds, I don't see the violation.