When is the hand part of the ball?

[Honest Bill]

Please explain the "hand is part of the ball" rule and all of its implications, including when there is contact made by a defender with the hand of someone holding the ball and when there is contact with the hand of a shooter by a defender's hand. There is lots of argument over this within our group of "old guys" that play several times each week. Thanks

[Jurassic Referee]

Rule 4-24-2. The exact terminology is "It is legal use of hands to reach or block or slap the ball controlled by a dribbler or a player throwing for goal or a player holding it,and accidentaly hitting the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball". In other words,it isn't a foul.

[Nevadaref]

So, JR, is it a foul if this is done on purpose?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
So, JR, is it a foul if this is done on purpose?

Supposed to be.Problem is that I'm never completely sure that it's on purpose because I ain't that good that I can read the "intent" of the defender.If there's any doubt,I'm always calling it accidental-and no foul.

[A Dutch Ref]

I think that that's a dumb rule. Why is it legal to slap the hand??? Under FIBA rules it's illegal, and I think that that's fine, cause how can someone shoot a decent shot if he's hit on the hand??

ADR

[Honest Bill]

JR, is "Rule 4-24-2" from the high school, college, pro or international rule book? And, ADR, is this kind of contact really illegal with FIBA?

[RecRef]

Originally posted by A Dutch Ref
I think that that's a dumb rule. Why is it legal to slap the hand??? Under FIBA rules it's illegal, and I think that that's fine, cause how can someone shoot a decent shot if he's hit on the hand??

ADR

Bit harsh are we? Got some bad rijsttafel?

How can you tell if the hand was hit or the ball was hit? Remember we are not only talking about shots but also while holding the ball and while dribbling.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

The hand is part of the ball when it is ON THE BALL.

Slapping the dribbler or shooter's hand when it is not on the ball and that leads to a fumble or an interrupted dribble probably needs to be called as a foul.

If the shooter has the ball above his head contact on the hand very often includes contact on the arm, on the body, and sometimes a defender's foot in the shooter's pocket - well, where a pocket would be located if uniforms had pockets. This contact is often called a foul also.

[RookieDude]

originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Slapping the dribbler or shooter's hand when it is not on the ball and that leads to a fumble or an interrupted dribble probably needs to be called as a foul

How about slapping the hand of a shooter, after he/she has released the ball?
Wouldn't this affect the follow through?

Dude

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Honest Bill
JR, is "Rule 4-24-2" from the high school, college, pro or international rule book? And, ADR, is this kind of contact really illegal with FIBA?

The rule I quoted is from the NFHS(high school)rulebook. The NCAA rule is basically the same- R4-34-2. I don't have a clue what the NBA or FIBA rule is.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

After the ball is gone, hitting the hand will not affect the flight of the ball - shot will still be made or missed on it's own merits.

If this hand-to-hand contact is the total contact and it was a valid attempt to block the shot, I'm not going to call a foul (I think I see your point. The shooter's hand is not in contact with the ball yet I'm not going to call a foul.) I rarely see hand-to-hand contact during the act of shooting without some other contact.

In my opinion, if the defender, in his effort to reach the ball, makes other bodily contact, he has been beaten and he should be whistled for the excessive contact with the shooter. Of course you would have to see the play to call it.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by RookieDude

How about slapping the hand of a shooter, after he/she has released the ball?
Wouldn't this affect the follow through?

Dude

Nah, generally pass on this stuff.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by RookieDude

How about slapping the hand of a shooter, after he/she has released the ball?
Wouldn't this affect the follow through?

No. If the ball is out of his hand, you can cut his hand off and it's not going to affect the shot.

[Hawks Coach]

I would only add that it won't affect this particular shot, just as the blocking foul on an irborn shooter after release of the ball does not affect that shot. If not called, may it affect the follow through on future shots?