Men's Championship Game, v2

[Camron Rust]

Starting up a new one....

As a graduate of Memphis (when it was Memphis State), I think the officials did a fantastic job. There were certainly judgement calls that could have been different...but no more in favor of one than the other. I do think there was a bit of showmanship going on in the officiating (mostly Hightower)....but not in a way that changed the game...only in drawing attention to themselves. I don't like it but it doesn't mean he's not a good official.

Memphis had the game won with 2-3 minutes left in regulation. But, the reason Memphis lost was three basic items:

1. Missed FTs in the last couple of minutes of regulation
2. Sloppy handling of the ball that lead to KU steals
3. Dorcy playing aggressive defense on the sideline when he had 4 fouls

Up 3 with seconds to go, Memphis should have fouled a KU player before they got to a shooting position...send them to the line for 1+1 (or 2) instead of a chance for 3.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Starting up a new one....

As a graduate of Memphis (when it was Memphis State), I think the officials did a fantastic job. There were certainly judgement calls that could have been different...but no more in favor of one than the other. I do think there was a bit of showmanship going on in the officiating (mostly Hightower)....but not in a way that changed the game...only in drawing attention to themselves. I don't like it but it doesn't mean he's not a good official.

Memphis had the game won with 2-3 minutes left in regulation. But, the reason Memphis lost was three basic items:

1. Missed FTs in the last couple of minutes of regulation
2. Sloppy handling of the ball that lead to KU steals
3. Dorcy playing aggressive defense on the sideline when he had 4 fouls

Up 3 with seconds to go, Memphis should have fouled a KU player before they got to a shooting position...send them to the line for 1+1 (or 2) instead of a chance for 3.

The thing is, Hightower always looks like he did last night.

That said, I listed all the Final Fours he's worked since 1988. I see guys in my state working 5, 6, 7 state tournaments, and I wonder....

Do the national/state assignors not realize how important it is to a lot of us to one day reach the summit of our avocation? We work hard, go to camps, try to do the right things, and then those assignors make easy, predictable, even lazy choices instead of working harder to identify those people who haven't been there who will come in and do a fantastic job.

While I'm happy for Hightower and the guys that made it, there are a dozen others who would do just a good a job and haven't gotten the chance because Hightower has been there 10-15 times.

If I was ever made king and got to assign state tournaments, you would get to go once and once only until everyone I deemed qualified had gone once. Which means, in all reality, you wouldn't get another one for 10-15 years. But more people would be able to share in the experience. The only people that would hate this are the ones who are currently in favor and going 2 out of every 3 years.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If I was ever made king and got to assign state tournaments, you would get to go once and once only until everyone I deemed qualified had gone once. Which means, in all reality, you wouldn't get another one for 10-15 years. But more people would be able to share in the experience. The only people that would hate this are the ones who are currently in favor and going 2 out of every 3 years.

We use this policy for assigning our local football officials to provincial bowl games. It is working well for us.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If I was ever made king and got to assign state tournaments, you would get to go once and once only until everyone I deemed qualified had gone once. Which means, in all reality, you wouldn't get another one for 10-15 years. But more people would be able to share in the experience. The only people that would hate this are the ones who are currently in favor and going 2 out of every 3 years.

That's an interesting thought....maybe instead of assigning the best officials, we simply "take turns"....think we should rotate the teams that actually get to participate in the state tournaments - instead of a true playoff? then more kids and more schools will get the chance to experience the state tournament....(hopefully you sense my sarcasm).

Let's just assign the best officials! If I'm a coach, I want the best officials working the most important games. You can disagree with the evaluation process used to determine the best officials, but I do not think you can oppose the philosophy that the best officials should be working the championship games.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

That's an interesting thought....maybe instead of assigning the best officials, we simply "take turns"....think we should rotate the teams that actually get to participate in the state tournaments - instead of a true playoff? then more kids and more schools will get the chance to experience the state tournament....(hopefully you sense my sarcasm).

Let's just assign the best officials! If I'm a coach, I want the best officials working the most important games. You can disagree with the evaluation process used to determine the best officials, but I do not think you can oppose the philosophy that the best officials should be working the championship games.

And you're missing Rich's point.

The "best" officials aren't automatically restricted to a select few. If your state only has the same, relatively few officials that are supposedly capable of doing state tournament games, then your state badly needs to do something to develop officials, because it sureashell is doing a terrible job of doing so in the present. I don't believe that any state is so lacking in competent officials that it absolutely has to keep using the same people year after year.

Personally, I give my fellow officials a heckuva lot more credit than you are. I think that there are quite a few officials, in ANY state, that could do a credible job if they are given the opportunity. And....if you don't give them the opportunity, you never will improve the quality of your officiating.

Having the same faces working all of the key games does absolutely nothing to help raise officiating standards in any area. Imo, any assignor with half a brain is going to mix and match the current big dawgs with the up-and-comers, with the goal of developing the up-and-comers into future big-dawgs. It's a self-perpetuating process, if done properly.

You don't know what an official can do until you give him/her a chance. They might just do a good a job as the "best" officials.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The thing is, Hightower always looks like he did last night.

That said, I listed all the Final Fours he's worked since 1988. I see guys in my state working 5, 6, 7 state tournaments, and I wonder....

Do the national/state assignors not realize how important it is to a lot of us to one day reach the summit of our avocation? We work hard, go to camps, try to do the right things, and then those assignors make easy, predictable, even lazy choices instead of working harder to identify those people who haven't been there who will come in and do a fantastic job.

While I'm happy for Hightower and the guys that made it, there are a dozen others who would do just a good a job and haven't gotten the chance because Hightower has been there 10-15 times.

If I was ever made king and got to assign state tournaments, you would get to go once and once only until everyone I deemed qualified had gone once. Which means, in all reality, you wouldn't get another one for 10-15 years. But more people would be able to share in the experience. The only people that would hate this are the ones who are currently in favor and going 2 out of every 3 years.

I here you, but imho you have to differentiate between a state title game and a NCAA final. I agree that if you've done a state final, you should step aside and let another qualified, deserving official have the honor.

That philosophy again, imo, does not apply to NCAAs

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I here you, but imho you have to differentiate between a state title game and a NCAA final. I agree that if you've done a state final, you should step aside and let another qualified, deserving official have the honor.

That philosophy again, imo, does not apply to NCAAs

Ridiculous. What makes Ed Hightower head and shoulders above someone else who works the ACC/Big 10/etc./etc. to the point where he is one of the 10 selected EVERY FREAKING YEAR? I know Welmer is a running joke around here for various reasons, but why do almost all the major conferences compete mightily for his services year after year only to see him get shafted when it comes time to the NCAA tournament? Never worked a Final Four in 28 years as a Division 1 official while Hightower works 90% of them?

It's laziness when it comes to high school basketball. It's about picking familiar names and faces that you know, that have been there before, that you are 100% confident will do as they did last year. I know a guy who has worked SEVEN boys state tourneys. Even with 3-person, less than 50 officials get that nod every season.

It's horrible for morale and horrible for retention of top notch people who, for whatever reason, are not the ones getting chosen year after year after year.

It's not personal. I've only worked here for six years and I value my off-season (and my other sports) too much to go to camp after camp hoping to be seen. But every year, the same faces. Why?

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I here you, but imho you have to differentiate between a state title game and a NCAA final. I agree that if you've done a state final, you should step aside and let another qualified, deserving official have the honor.

That philosophy again, imo, does not apply to NCAAs

Anybody that officiates in the NCAA Tournament is qualified to do the Final Four. Period. And there are plenty more that are good enough that don't get the call for the tourney.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Ridiculous. What makes Ed Hightower head and shoulders above someone else who works the ACC/Big 10/etc./etc. to the point where he is one of the 10 selected EVERY FREAKING YEAR? I know Welmer is a running joke around here for various reasons, but why do almost all the major conferences compete mightily for his services year after year only to see him get shafted when it comes time to the NCAA tournament? Never worked a Final Four in 28 years as a Division 1 official while Hightower works 90% of them?

It's laziness when it comes to high school basketball. It's about picking familiar names and faces that you know, that have been there before, that you are 100% confident will do as they did last year. I know a guy who has worked SEVEN boys state tourneys. Even with 3-person, less than 50 officials get that nod every season.

It's horrible for morale and horrible for retention of top notch people who, for whatever reason, are not the ones getting chosen year after year after year.

It's not personal. I've only worked here for six years and I value my off-season (and my other sports) too much to go to camp after camp hoping to be seen. But every year, the same faces. Why?

My point is the NCAA feels they are picking the best men for the job at hand that night. I never said he is head and shoulders(pardon the pun with that rug he wears) above anyone else. My thoughts are contrasting state finals with NCAA's . I have no idea how they arrive at their criteria.

I thought by the way, Hightower along with his crew did a good job last night.

I know Hightower can be over the top, but at that large of a venue, magnitude of the game, and a zillion TV viewers, embellishment of calls beats the opposite.

That's my view from the couch

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Anybody that officiates in the NCAA Tournament is qualified to do the Final Four. Period. And there are plenty more that are good enough that don't get the call for the tourney.

Perhaps.

[JRutledge]

I love when people do not like the people that work the big games they start to change the qualifications to their liking. Anyone that is hired to work any game is qualified because the people making the decisions they are qualified. Look if the NCAA cared about anyone's mechanics, they would not allow many of the officials to work or they would get upset with officials that work games during the regular season.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

maybe instead of assigning the best officials, we simply "take turns"

It isn't as simple as mocking a different selection paradigm as "taking turns" or asserting the current system hires the "best officials." One official can't be depended upon to work all, or even a large number, of big games. We need multiple officials that are ready to step in, and the only way they are going to be ready is if they get a big assignment. I'm afraid that too many of these guys that constantly get final four nods are there simply because they've been there before. "They have the experience, so that's why they are out there." Fine, but putting aside the fact that at SOME POINT, they didn't have the experience and simply got their chance, they aren't going to be around forever. The fact is that if you go by the standard of experience in a Final Four game as a means of qualification, we simply don't know whether Steve Welmer (for example) would do a better job than Ed Hightower (for example) because Welmer hasn't gotten the chance to prove it. And you can't tell me that Welmer has screwed up his NCAA games so bad he deserves to get shut out as he did this year. There are several assignors around the country that would argue -- by their own actions if nothing else -- otherwise.

So I defy anyone that justifies the current system as "having the best officials." All we know is that the officials there are the ones that Hank Nichols (or whoever it is that makes the decision) wants in there.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Ridiculous. What makes Ed Hightower head and shoulders above someone else who works the ACC/Big 10/etc./etc. to the point where he is one of the 10 selected EVERY FREAKING YEAR? I know Welmer is a running joke around here for various reasons, but why do almost all the major conferences compete mightily for his services year after year only to see him get shafted when it comes time to the NCAA tournament? Never worked a Final Four in 28 years as a Division 1 official while Hightower works 90% of them?

My opinion is that an assignor picks people in whom he has developed confidence for the high profile assignments. Afterall, their performance also reflects upon him and if his guys don't perform then it is his butt that will be on the line.
I seriously doubt that "the best" people are selected for these games by an objective standard. There are many off-court factors that go in the selection process. I happen to think that the NCAA administrators consider height and weight, age, and yes, race. But again the biggest factor seems to be who has a good relationship with the assignor. That covers both friendships and the trust/confidence factor.

These thoughts may well explain why you see the same faces year after year, why certain individuals get excluded despite quality regular season schedules, and why it is difficult for fresh faces to break into the mix.

[Back In The Saddle]

So here's a question for you...why has Welmer consistently been shut out of the final four? Is it a conflict with Hank Nichols? If so, it'll be interesting to see what happens next year. But, as I understand it, Hank forwards a list on to the tournament committee who have "final say."

Then again, Hank hasn't been the supervisor for 28 years (assuming Rich's number is correct), has he? So maybe he made somebody very angry farther back and higher up? It makes for some entertaining, but pointless speculation.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

That's an interesting thought....maybe instead of assigning the best officials, we simply "take turns"....think we should rotate the teams that actually get to participate in the state tournaments - instead of a true playoff? then more kids and more schools will get the chance to experience the state tournament....(hopefully you sense my sarcasm).

Besides the choice of who refs isn't a "reward" for winning the "best ref in the state" competition. The players are competing, the refs are working. There could (and as jurassic says, should) be several or many refs who are equally capable, and anyone who is capable of doing a great job should have an opportunity. There's no other way to have an association that can do the best job of serving.