You got to know the rules...

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Actually, here's my point. In that league, we try to achieve a sportsmanship level of 100%. If we can get the crowd to not yell at the refs regarding calls, it has that much more of a positive impact on the players. That's why we are "quick on the trigger" to admonish and even eject unruly spectators. The structure of this league mandates the following:

1) kids having fun
2) player safety
3) sportsmanship
4) respect for authority
5) improving skills

Parents yelling at refs is in conflict with numbers 3 and 4 and is not tolerated. BTW - the motto of the league is "Do Sports, Not Drugs". This league is for boys and girls in grades 3-12.

Well this is certainly different than "Because it's so much fun embarrassing a gym full of parents"... but I guess I still don't get why you would need to have the refs do their show of hands thingy prior to every game.

FWIW IMO if you want to be treated with respect as an authority then you have to treat those you have authority over with respect.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

It will also have the effect of removing any profit from the business of broadcasting sports on TV...which will ultimately lead to it's disappearance.

It may cause the broadcasting to rebalance the ad/program ratio so that it is not as annoying to watch. (The ads per hour ratio has gone up in the last couple of decades). Once it gets to a tolerable level, the motivation to skip them all decreases. Once there are fewer, those will be more valuable.

INteresting fact on this:

(from http://www2.sims.berkeley.edu/resear...broadcast.html)

For many years, most large TV stations and the major networks subscribed to the Code of Good Practices of the National Association of Broadcasting, which established limits on the number of commercial minutes that could be telecast each hour. The limits were voluntary but widely followed: 9 1/2 minutes of commercials during primetime; higher amounts during other times of night and day. In 1992, however, the guidelines were ruled a violation of Federal antitrust law. Throughout the industry, most pledged to continue the limits - but gradually that eroded, as networks added more ad time. Prime time today has an average of 15 minutes of ads per hour. The FCC regulates advertising only during children's programming: 10.5 minutes/hour on weekends, 12 minutes/hour on weekdays.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

It will also have the effect of removing any profit from the business of broadcasting sports on TV...which will ultimately lead to it's its disappearance.

Someone has to be Mr. Grammar Guy on this one.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Someone has to be Mr. Grammar Guy on this one.

What? No extra credit for using EFFECT instaed of AFFECT?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

FWIW IMO if you want to be treated with respect as an authority then you have to treat those you have authority over with respect.

Dan - have you ever worked a 6th grade game, or lower? The parents have absolutely no respect for the officials (OK - some do, but a lot don't) no matter how you treat them. Telling them ahead of time that poor sportsmanship will not be tolerated and then following through on that is the only way to get respect. It's even worse in the young kids "competitive" leagues. Every time you make a call against Little Johnny, you've just ruined his chances for that D1 scholarship! Don't believe me? Just ask his mom. Oh wait - you don't have to because she just screamed it at you - twelve times!

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

What? No extra credit for using EFFECT instaed of AFFECT?

When we get past instaed we will work on the effect/affect thing

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by fullor30

When we get past instaed we will work on the effect/affect thing

And also using periods at the end of sentences.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

And also using periods at the end of sentences.

And not beginning sentences with conjunctions.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by fullor30

When we get past instaed we will work on the effect/affect thing

DOH!

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

And not beginning sentences with conjunctions.

And is acceptable. Also, when posting replies to threads, we tend to speak in phrases rather than complete sentences, at least I do, again acceptable......

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Dan - have you ever worked a 6th grade game, or lower? The parents have absolutely no respect for the officials (OK - some do, but a lot don't) no matter how you treat them. Telling them ahead of time that poor sportsmanship will not be tolerated and then following through on that is the only way to get respect. It's even worse in the young kids "competitive" leagues. Every time you make a call against Little Johnny, you've just ruined his chances for that D1 scholarship! Don't believe me? Just ask his mom. Oh wait - you don't have to because she just screamed it at you - twelve times!

I think the point that was being made is who cares what parents think. I know I do not and never will. And if that is not enough, then that is the problem with youth basketball. And that is why you get a lot of officials that will not work that level.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think the point that was being made is who cares what parents think. I know I do not and never will. And if that is not enough, then that is the problem with youth basketball. And that is why you get a lot of officials that will not work that level. Peace

It's not a matter of how they think, it's a matter of the example they set for the kids. I am a firm believer in the value of youth sports so that's why I devote so much time and effort to this organization. The kids are more important than the parents so the point is to make sure the parents don't negatively impact the kids.

Yes - it's hard to get experienced officials to work these games, but we do get a few. That's one reason we train about 5 or 6 new HS kids each season to officiate. I make it a point to make sure the officials take as little crap as possible. We pay pretty decent for a kids rec league ($22-$25 for experienced officials and they usually work 3 games each Sat. - the games are short) and we have a big pizza party at the end of the season.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Dan - have you ever worked a 6th grade game, or lower?

No Mark, my very first game was Georgetown at Syracuse. I'm pretty well connected.



OK I go that out of my system... and it's still a pretty stupid question.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

No Mark, my very first game was Georgetown at Syracuse. I'm pretty well connected.



OK I go that out of my system... and it's still a pretty stupid question.

Actually, my first game was an intramural at the Springfield YMCA. There were no spectators, just the farmer who provided the peach baskets.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He used the same line when Dee Kantner made a signal he did not agree with last night and I disagreed with him. So the answer is yes.

Peace

Hey I'm in good company then.

btw... we are talking about Dee and not you, right Jeff? )