Referee Magazine false double foul - April issue

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How old was Bill Gates when he started Microsoft? Twenty?

Well, yea, but he didn't have more people to control than a basketball game, until he was like 23 or 24. I mean, 20 IS just too young!!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Jeff, fwiw, I agree with you. I was just asking these questions for Nevada's sake, as he has been on record saying he feels officials should be subject to an upper age limit due to general physical abilities, and now he is advocating a lower age limit, due to experience limitations.

I would think age should not be a major determing factor, but rather each official's overall abilities should determine the level they are able to work.

Some safeguards are necessary for the greater good even if they eliminate a few individuals who would otherwise do a good job.

I'll point out that the founding fathers of our country disagree with your individual approach and wrote into the Constitution certain age requirements for holding federal office. US House rep = 25 years, US Senate = 30, US President = 35. Now why do you think that they did that?
It seems that they didn't believe that those 18 and 20 year olds who fought in the war to establish this country were ready to lead it administratively.

Also given what life expectancy was back at that time and what it is now, I would argue that those numbers would be even higher if the Constitution were to be drafted today.

IMO 35-55 is the age range in which people have the most balance of physical ability and mental maturity/experience to handle the rigors of D1 basketball.

But as always each is entitled to his/her own opinion and I have no qualms with anyone expressing those thoughts (wrong as they may be).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Some safeguards are necessary for the greater good even if they eliminate a few individuals who would otherwise do a good job.

I'll point out that the founding fathers of our country disagree with your individual approach and wrote into the Constitution certain age requirements for holding federal office. US House rep = 25 years

I get it.

At 25, you have enough emotional and mental maturity to be a US House Rep member, but you still don't have enough emotional and mental maturity to officiate a D1 basketball game. Iow, you can help run a country of 300 million people at 25, but not a college basketball game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

But as always each is entitled to his/her own opinion and I have no qualms with anyone expressing those thoughts (wrong as they may be).

True, but you are not in any position to make that decision (neither is anyone else here so this is not an attack on you). So really this conversation is irrelevant. This is just an internet discussion about like whose team is better than my team.

Peace

[Adam]

JR, holding your feelings in like this is just going to hurt you in the long run.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Some safeguards are necessary for the greater good even if they eliminate a few individuals who would otherwise do a good job.

I'll point out that the founding fathers of our country disagree with your individual approach and wrote into the Constitution certain age requirements for holding federal office. US House rep = 25 years, US Senate = 30, US President = 35. Now why do you think that they did that?
It seems that they didn't believe that those 18 and 20 year olds who fought in the war to establish this country were ready to lead it administratively.

Also given what life expectancy was back at that time and what it is now, I would argue that those numbers would be even higher if the Constitution were to be drafted today.

IMO 35-55 is the age range in which people have the most balance of physical ability and mental maturity/experience to handle the rigors of D1 basketball.

But as always each is entitled to his/her own opinion and I have no qualms with anyone expressing those thoughts (wrong as they may be).

Believe as you wish.

[Mendy Trent]

Well this has certainly been an interesting thread to read, but I still don't see where my question has been answered much.

I know the rulings. I have just never seen situations where both fouls are called. When a player gets fouled while shooting and then crashes into someone, I have only seen the first foul called. I have never seen a charging foul called after the initial foul against the defense.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I get it.

At 25, you have enough emotional and mental maturity to be a US House Rep member, but you still don't have enough emotional and mental maturity to officiate a D1 basketball game. Iow, you can help run a country of 300 million people at 25, but not a college basketball game.

Apparently at 60+ one can't read the following sentence and process the logic of it.

"Also given what life expectancy was back at that time and what it is now, I would argue that those numbers would be even higher if the Constitution were to be drafted today."

Life Exp 1789 - about 50? hold federal office at half of that.
Life Exp 2008 - about 80? half of that is 40ish.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Apparently at 60+ one can't read the following sentence and process the logic of it.

"Also given what life expectancy was back at that time and what it is now, I would argue that those numbers would be even higher if the Constitution were to be drafted today."

Life Exp 1789 - about 50? hold federal office at half of that.
Life Exp 2008 - about 80? half of that is 40ish.

And apparently at whatevertherhell age you are, you can't comprehend that the damn age requirement to be a House Rep HASN'T freaking changed since 1789. It's 25 years old as of right now, Nevada. April 3, 2008! If anybody was stoopid enough to agree with you, and they sureashell haven't, then the minimum age now in 2008 would be 40ish. They would have changed it. Or maybe even brought up the idea of raising the minimum age. Nobody has that I've ever heard of. That would tell a normal person something right there, methinks.

Your logic makes as much sense as your original dumb hypothesis.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Mendy Trent

Well this has certainly been an interesting thread to read, but I still don't see where my question has been answered much.

I know the rulings. I have just never seen situations where both fouls are called. When a player gets fouled while shooting and then crashes into someone, I have only seen the first foul called. I have never seen a charging foul called after the initial foul against the defense.

OK - here's an answer. Yeah - I've called it properly every time I've seen it - probably somewhere around 500 or 600 times. There was one 3rd grade girls game in which I called it 17 times against the same team, and that was just in the first quarter. After the fourth call, the coach blew up so I had him tarred and feathered, drawn and quartered, then run out of town on a rail. He was also suspended for a game, not that it mattered, since the body was never found.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Mendy Trent

Well this has certainly been an interesting thread to read, but I still don't see where my question has been answered much.

I know the rulings. I have just never seen situations where both fouls are called. When a player gets fouled while shooting and then crashes into someone, I have only seen the first foul called. I have never seen a charging foul called after the initial foul against the defense.

I've never called it nor have I seen it called over the years I've officiated on the high school level. For that matter, I've never seen it called on any level that I can remember.


.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mendy Trent

Page 54 of my most recent Referee Magazine.

A23 drives the lane and is fouled by B24 while attempting a layup. The ball enters the basket and A23 then collides with B55 who is in a legal guarding position (a) just before, or (b) just after returning to the floor.

Ruling: False double foul. Penalize both fouls in both cases.

I have never ever, ever, seen anyone call this at any level. I have only seen the first foul penalized. Have you?

I have seen (a) once and I didn't hesitate to call it. I have never seen (b), other than minor incidental contact.

I waived off the successful attempt, reported both fouls, and awarded two shots.

No, I didn't have to T any coaches.

[Adam]

I've never seen it called, but I've never seen it happen (much to socal's surprise). Normally, when the play is similar, it's more of a situation when B1 pushes A1 (who is shooting) into B2 (who has LGP). I'm not penalizing A1 for getting pushed and redirected.
If I see a situation where A1 crashes into B2 without the aid of B1 (a foul on the arm or something), I'll call both fouls and explain it to my assigner if he/she requires.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Hey - when I was 26 I was already U.S. ambassador to Antarctica and also captain of the U.S. Olympic Sarcasm Team. That's pretty mature, if you ask me!

"All right, son, I won't ask you." **

















**Gertie from Tom Slick Anybody remember that one?

[JS 20]

I actually had this happen in a men's rec game a while back. Fed rules. It's the end of the half, Team A is on offense taking the ball out. A1 receives the inbounds pass about 30 feet from the basket and jacks up a 3. B1 lunges at the shot and fouls A1 (arms get tangled and there's plenty of body contact). While still in the air and right after B1 fouls A1, A1 grabs both of B1's arms and pulls him to the floor w/ him.