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-   -   How good/bad is your association involved in politics? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42990-how-good-bad-your-association-involved-politics.html)

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 04:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra
Agreed. But politics is the reason the "stupid system" exists.
It might be a stupid system, but I have not heard one example from you that prevents you from working. What is the system preventing you from doing? You vote for board members right? You decide to attend meetings right? You decide to attend camps right? What is the system preventing you from doing?

Peace

Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 24, 2008 04:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Well what you just suggested is not unique to where you live. I belong to multiple organizations that have D1 officials working with officials and running camps. And we do not have an "instructional staff" to accomplish a high level of training. So what you are describing is not something only in one part of the country. I am sure there are many places that have officials that work all those levels.
That's just crazy talk, Jeff.

Heresy! Heresy, I tell ya!:D

SWMOzebra Mon Mar 24, 2008 04:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
It might be a stupid system, but I have not heard one example from you that prevents you from working. What is the system preventing you from doing? You vote for board members right? You decide to attend meetings right? You decide to attend camps right? What is the system preventing you from doing?
I did not state and did not intend to imply that the system ever prevented me from doing anything. I was only offering the example of having two local associations in response to the lament in the OP that the next closest association was a great distance away.

fullor30 Mon Mar 24, 2008 04:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
It might be a stupid system, but I have not heard one example from you that prevents you from working. What is the system preventing you from doing? You vote for board members right? You decide to attend meetings right? You decide to attend camps right? What is the system preventing you from doing?

Peace

I mentioned 'good ol boy' network before, and you admonished me somewhat.
I'm now walking on your side of the street. As you said, it is what it is. Does it go on? Probably to some extent varying from assignor to assignor. Can I control it or change the system? No, nor should I try.

I had my most satisfying year officiating on many levels, starting with working, studying, attending more camps and listening more than ever. I had a better schedule, tournament games, and also helped assignors out with emergencies and an occassional lower level game that needed last minute filling which I was more than glad to do. You're right, if you just put your head down and work the right way, good things will happen. Nothing's perfect and I'm not going to get every date I want, but very few do.

Officiating and all it entails is a perfect microcosm of any other part of society.

truerookie Mon Mar 24, 2008 04:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
It might be a stupid system, but I have not heard one example from you that prevents you from working. What is the system preventing you from doing? You vote for board members right? You decide to attend meetings right? You decide to attend camps right? What is the system preventing you from doing?

Peace
Rut, you have to keep in mind that SWMOZEBRA is part of an organization where they appointed their successor(s). They tell the member(s) how to vote.

The larger organization ask you to join their association; you pay your dues and they still say you have to work 5 games for free before they assign you any games. Now do get this wrong. They evaluated you for 5 free games and these free games are during a camp in which you have to pay to attend. Before they assign you any games. IT'S TRUE; IT'S TRUE!!!

SWMOzebra Mon Mar 24, 2008 04:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
Rut, you have to keep in mind that SWMOZEBRA is part of an organization where they appointed their successor(s). They tell the member(s) how to vote.

The larger organization ask you to join their association; you pay your dues and they still say you have to work 5 games for free before they assign you any games. Now do get this wrong. They evaluated you for 5 free games and these free games are during a camp in which you have to pay to attend. Before they assign you any games. IT'S TRUE; IT'S TRUE!!!
I think you might be referring to the SMBOA, which is the larger organization. I'm in the other one. :) I don't know if what you're saying is true or not, my limited experience with the SMBOA is mostly through required mechanics clinics and rules meetings.

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 04:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
I mentioned 'good ol boy' network before, and you admonished me somewhat.
I'm now walking on your side of the street. As you said, it is what it is. Does it go on? Probably to some extent varying from assignor to assignor. Can I control it or change the system? No, nor should I try.

I had my most satisfying year officiating on many levels, starting with working, studying, attending more camps and listening more than ever. I had a better schedule, tournament games, and also helped assignors out with emergencies and an occassional lower level game that needed last minute filling which I was more than glad to do. You're right, if you just put your head down and work the right way, good things will happen. Nothing's perfect and I'm not going to get every date I want, but very few do.

Officiating and all it entails is a perfect microcosm of any other part of society.
I was not admonishing you. I just wanted to make it clear to you and others that if you stop worrying about the system and work within the system. And in our system you did exactly what I tell people to do all the time. It appears that advice (not just me I am sure) worked out for you. I just think there are people that say politics is the reason they do not accomplish things, but they never take responsibility for their own failures or shortcomings. And if you look at me there are many people that feel I am connected to all kinds of people and I get opportunities that I have because of those connections. Now if that is true, why is it that I cannot work on of the most famous tournaments in the country? There are places all of us cannot get into or people that will not hire us. Just do a little research and you will see even the most big time officials cannot go places because the right (or wrong) people do not like them or respect their abilities (or outside stuff we will never know about).

My problem has always been that people want to believe that they are being held back because someone is making decisions in the back room or because they do not go to the bar. Then they chalk it up to "politics" instead of what they are unwilling to do to be seen. Each official is their own salesperson and it is up to each of us to sell ourselves because most of the time no one else will.

Peace

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 05:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
Rut, you have to keep in mind that SWMOZEBRA is part of an organization where they appointed their successor(s). They tell the member(s) how to vote.
Then shame on the membership for allowing people to tell you how to vote. That is not politics, that is stupidity if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
The larger organization ask you to join their association; you pay your dues and they still say you have to work 5 games for free before they assign you any games. Now do get this wrong. They evaluated you for 5 free games and these free games are during a camp in which you have to pay to attend. Before they assign you any games. IT'S TRUE; IT'S TRUE!!!
How are those free games when you are attending a camp?

And that sounds like they give you plenty of opportunity to shine. Five games is a lot for even a lot for the $500 camp to show your ability.

Peace

fullor30 Mon Mar 24, 2008 05:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I was not admonishing you. I just wanted to make it clear to you and others that if you stop worrying about the system and work within the system. And in our system you did exactly what I tell people to do all the time. It appears that advice (not just me I am sure) worked out for you. I just think there are people that say politics is the reason they do not accomplish things, but they never take responsibility for their own failures or shortcomings. And if you look at me there are many people that feel I am connected to all kinds of people and I get opportunities that I have because of those connections. Now if that is true, why is it that I cannot work on of the most famous tournaments in the country? There are places all of us cannot get into or people that will not hire us. Just do a little research and you will see even the most big time officials cannot go places because the right (or wrong) people do not like them or respect their abilities (or outside stuff we will never know about).

My problem has always been that people want to believe that they are being held back because someone is making decisions in the back room or because they do not go to the bar. Then they chalk it up to "politics" instead of what they are unwilling to do to be seen. Each official is their own salesperson and it is up to each of us to sell ourselves because most of the time no one else will.




Peace


Admonish.........
1. To reprove gently but earnestly.

And I'm glad you did;)

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 05:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
Admonish.........
1. To reprove gently but earnestly.

And I'm glad you did;)
Well if you say it that way. :D

Peace

tomegun Mon Mar 24, 2008 06:53pm
I've seen quite a few officials from Southern California and I wouldn't classify them as any better or worse than officials from other parts of the country...except Mississippi. :D

When speaking of better games to get better quickly you must realize that this can hurt an official as much if not more than help. If you are in over your head too soon, it could stunt your growth and you can continue to make the same mistakes for years.

I can also say with 100% certainty that the west coast has some of the most BS politics in the country. What you wear to meetings, in camps, how you have to "work the room." I love the west coast for some reasons and hate it for others. Politics is something that is brutal out west.

truerookie Mon Mar 24, 2008 08:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Then shame on the membership for allowing people to tell you how to vote. That is not politics, that is stupidity if you ask me.



How are those free games when you are attending a camp?

And that sounds like they give you plenty of opportunity to shine. Five games is a lot for even a lot for the $500 camp to show your ability.

Peace
The point(s) I were trying to make are: (Outside of camp settings).

(1). 5 free games outside of the camp setting
(2). They make it a requirement for you to attend their camps and if you don't they will not assign you any games even after you paid for membership.

truerookie Mon Mar 24, 2008 08:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra
I think you might be referring to the SMBOA, which is the larger organization. I'm in the other one. :) I don't know if what you're saying is true or not, my limited experience with the SMBOA is mostly through required mechanics clinics and rules meetings.
Well not to call your bluff, I'm aware of the assignor; prez in the smaller org.

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 09:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
The point(s) I were trying to make are: (Outside of camp settings).

(1). 5 free games outside of the camp setting
I am trying to figure out why this is a problem. You realize there was an official on here bragging about how many hours of

Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
(2). They make it a requirement for you to attend their camps and if you don't they will not assign you any games even after you paid for membership.
Welcome to the real world of officiating. That is a very common occurrence at the local level and at the college level to make you go to camps. Look, when people assign you games they have a right to require some things. Just because it is not something we like does not mean it is an unfair request. I know I have to log on to Assign By Web in order to work for certain people and in some cases it can be a pain because so many assignors I work for require different log on sites in order to get just one game. And in some cases games are just filled even if I have not consent first. That is not completely fair to me in my opinion, but that is the system. I would not claim "politics" because if I do not want to work for them, I can always take my name off the list.

Peace

Rich Mon Mar 24, 2008 09:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I am trying to figure out why this is a problem. You realize there was an official on here bragging about how many hours of



Welcome to the real world of officiating. That is a very common occurrence at the local level and at the college level to make you go to camps. Look, when people assign you games they have a right to require some things. Just because it is not something we like does not mean it is an unfair request. I know I have to log on to Assign By Web in order to work for certain people and in some cases it can be a pain because so many assignors I work for require different log on sites in order to get just one game. And in some cases games are just filled even if I have not consent first. That is not completely fair to me in my opinion, but that is the system. I would not claim "politics" because if I do not want to work for them, I can always take my name off the list.

Peace
This has cost me games. I will not pay $300 for a camp just to work a high school conference. If I want to go to a camp, I'll go, but just to break even for a half-dozen high school games? No thanks.


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