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-   -   How good/bad is your association involved in politics? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42990-how-good-bad-your-association-involved-politics.html)

Welpe Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Oh, one other little question, if you don't mind. What color is the sky in your world out there?
In Southern California? Brown....very very brown. :D

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
btw, I too lived in SoCal during the 80's and my experience with their basketball officials was spotty at best - but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are the worst in the country.

Opinions, we all have one. :shrug:
I think you could say that about just about any place in the country. I will say that some places are better than others and for example my state has had 3 Person training for years. I would say that that training has produced a lot of well versed officials in 3 Person. But I would not say that this produces the best officials in the country. Maybe there are opportunities that are larger than in other places to learn the 3 Person system, but that does not apply to every official that is exposed to that level of training.

Peace

TheOracle Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by socalreff
No. They are not part of the 18 hours. I was merely pointing out all the other opportunities there are to improve.
To be qualified to work any high school game the 18 hours of classroom instruction are required
It is great you have those resources available to you in SoCal. Watching videos that illustrate the correct application of the rules is awesome. I spend as much time as possible watching these. EOfficials has the great NCAA set available online. I also have noticed that the best officials at the 2 camps I work at each summer spend the most time in our break room watching the films of the NCAA and NBA examples of rule application. You can find people willing to help and develop officials anywhere. Glad you have found a good spot for you in SoCal, and that you are doing the Vegas camp this summer. Great things to do!

Remember, it is wasteful for veteran officials to spend 18 hours of clasroom training, but it is OK to spend 100's of hours on the Internet being jealous of the "LOCAA" folks and fighting about irrelevant nuances. I always thought basketball was basketball, whether it is 3rd grade or NCAA. We need Obama to weigh in here!

Adam Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
Remember, it is wasteful for veteran officials to spend 18 hours of clasroom training, but it is OK to spend 100's of hours on the Internet being jealous of the "LOCAA" folks and fighting about irrelevant nuances. I always thought basketball was basketball, whether it is 3rd grade or NCAA. We need Obama to weigh in here!
The day I claim my discussions with you make me a better official is the day your quote above becomes relevant.

Until then....

26 Year Gap Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
The day I claim my discussions with you make me a better official is the day your quote above becomes relevant.

Until then....
LOL

SWMOzebra Mon Mar 24, 2008 01:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
Just out of curiousity, do you have to choose or could you join both?
Yes, each organization prohibits its members from accepting assignments from the other. The large group even prohibits its members from accepting collegiate assignments from the smaller group's assignor.

It's an unfortunate situation where a group of unhappy officials broke with the large organization over a question of where the $$$ went and started the smaller group. It all happened before I became an official, so I went with the group that I thought (and still think) is best for me. Having spoke with folks in both groups, there are still bad feelings to this day over the rift.

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by socalreff
Dan,

I apologize for "the best" comment. I should have said that the opportunity to be the best anywhere exists here.
All I'm saying is that it's great to have NCAA Division 1, 2, and 3 -- men's and women's side -- officials on the instructional staff of our association available to officials to glean knowledge from. Also the opportunity to do high quality games throughout the year lends itself to rapid improvement.
Well what you just suggested is not unique to where you live. I belong to multiple organizations that have D1 officials working with officials and running camps. And we do not have an "instructional staff" to accomplish a high level of training. So what you are describing is not something only in one part of the country. I am sure there are many places that have officials that work all those levels.

Peace

jdw3018 Mon Mar 24, 2008 01:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra
Yes, each organization prohibits its members from accepting assignments from the other. The large group even prohibits its members from accepting collegiate assignments from the smaller group's assignor.

It's an unfortunate situation where a group of unhappy officials broke with the large organization over a question of where the $$$ went and started the smaller group. It all happened before I became an official, so I went with the group that I thought (and still think) is best for me. Having spoke with folks in both groups, there are still bad feelings to this day over the rift.
That's unfortunate.

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 01:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra
Yes, each organization prohibits its members from accepting assignments from the other. The large group even prohibits its members from accepting collegiate assignments from the smaller group's assignor.

It's an unfortunate situation where a group of unhappy officials broke with the large organization over a question of where the $$$ went and started the smaller group. It all happened before I became an official, so I went with the group that I thought (and still think) is best for me. Having spoke with folks in both groups, there are still bad feelings to this day over the rift.

That does not sound like politics. That sounds like a stupid system.

Peace

JRutledge Mon Mar 24, 2008 01:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by socalreff
I know there are many high level officials that work with officials at camps, etc.
I was saying that in addition to that, those officials are involved in the 18 hours of instruction. It helps to develop officials more quickly.
And I'm not saying it automatically makes all the officials better. Obviously, it is still incumbent on each official to seize the opportunities that are there.
I've seen plenty of people stagnate and not do the things it takes to get better.
You keep focusing on the 18 hours as if everyone learns the same way or picks up on the information equally. Unfortunately that is not always true and if that time in training becomes redundant or tiresome for many, than you have officials that are not picking up on everything. And if I am not mistaken, your area is not working 3 Person across the board for all games. If that is the case (and I could be wrong) then what are officials really getting out of the training when so much of officiating is understanding and practicing a system that helps officials get to the next level.

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Mar 24, 2008 02:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Mark, I noticed you refrained from using the words "best", "officials", "in", "the" and "country" in your post. We all have to attend meetings, we all get formal & informal training, we all take tests, we all get evaluated, we all move up & get dropped. Some of us do this for more than just 1 or even 2 associations. All but one of us can control themselves enough to not use the words in my list.

btw, I too lived in SoCal during the 80's and my experience with their basketball officials was spotty at best - but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are the worst in the country.

Opinions, we all have one. :shrug:

Dan:

In Ohio, officials are not evaluated. The coaches tell the league assigners which officials can officiate varsity games in their league. One coach can black ball an officical from his league. Coaches vote on which officials can officiate in the post season tournament.

MTD, Sr.

26 Year Gap Mon Mar 24, 2008 03:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Dan:

In Ohio, officials are not evaluated. The coaches tell the league assigners which officials can officiate varsity games in their league. One coach can black ball an officical from his league. Coaches vote on which officials can officiate in the post season tournament.

MTD, Sr.
Poetic justice would be allowing officials to vote on which coaches can coach in the post-season tournament.

SWMOzebra Mon Mar 24, 2008 03:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
That sounds like a stupid system.
Agreed. But politics is the reason the "stupid system" exists.

truerookie Mon Mar 24, 2008 03:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra
Yes, each organization prohibits its members from accepting assignments from the other. The large group even prohibits its members from accepting collegiate assignments from the smaller group's assignor.

It's an unfortunate situation where a group of unhappy officials broke with the large organization over a question of where the $$$ went and started the smaller group. It all happened before I became an official, so I went with the group that I thought (and still think) is best for me. Having spoke with folks in both groups, there are still bad feelings to this day over the rift.
Springfield: southwest missouri baskeotball official association / basketball officials of the ozark? (k. h. V d. v.)

Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 24, 2008 04:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by socalreff
54 hours of instruction plus over 300 regular season high school games plus 100 3 person summer league games not including 180 hours of camp instruction in the first 3 years of officiating......
I think that gets one prepared very well.

Assignors are always looking for talent. They hire every year at the small college level -- over 40 JC's in our backyard.

Anyone that wants to be can be college ready in 3 years with what and who they have available to them here.

My quote above stands on its own. I know plenty of officials who resemble my statement, myself included. I've even seen officials move to D1 after only 3 or 4 years.
Are you telling me that the average official in Cali does 100 regular season high school games in his first year? One hundred? And one hundred regular season high school games a year for the next 2 years also? WOW!

If the assignors hire for those 40 JC's, what is the criteria used by those assignors for the officials that they are letting go every year to make room for those new hires.

Are you currently a D1 official in Cali? If so, for what leagues? If not, why not?


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