How good/bad is your association involved in politics?
 

Just want to ask you how good/bad is your association involved in politics. In my association, there is a good old boy system/group that takes over the board of directors and does not want to improve the association at all! :mad:

We only had five meetings last season and not even half the officials show up. They will not require mentors to help out the rookies. :(

Too bad the next closest association is 200 miles away.

Let me first say that I am not one who buys into the whole "politics" discussion that many officials like to have. I feel ultimately everyone has a system and if they work within that system they can benefit or parish. I honestly feel that most officials use any downfall as an excuse for their careers despite what is actually true.

Having said that that politics in my area exists, but it has little or nothing to do with the overall success of officials or who does what. There are all kinds of factors to how an official can succeed and the organizational structures where I live only play a small role in what an official can or cannot do. I guess I do not consider it bad or good. It is what it is. And at least where I live I have to please multiple people in order to work games which leads to other opportunities. None of this is in the hands of one or two people.

Also you said that the association does not make mentors help out the rookies. I guess what I do not understand is how can anyone make someone help people if they do not want to? I know I found my own mentors and did not need an association structure to find people that I thought were helpful to me personally. I would agree that associations are there to help officials achieve a common goal, but that goal is not always to help everyone out in a structured way. In other words, if you get games from your association, that might be the main focus of the association. The multiple associations that I belong to main focus are training. So I get out of if what I decide to put into it.

Peace

I'm sure this isn't the case 100% of the time, but I think a good official will eventually make it hard for politics to hold him/her back. There just seems to always be a way for a good official to work games. I've seen politics all over the country and eventually good officials achieve some level of success. It might not always be what is desired, but it is success.

My parish is Our Lady of the Holy Blarge:D

The "good old boy" politics to which the OP refers is probably present at some level (big or small) in all officiating associations. In a group setting, it's almost impossible to remove politics from the equation.

However, I completely agree with the others who are right to say that (1) it won't hold back good officials who are truly intent on improving and (2) you can complain about it or deal with it.

Locally, we have two basketball associations. The big one has 95% (or more) of the games and the small one gets the balance, but the small one also books for several NAIA colleges locally and has some top-caliber officials. I ultimately went with the smaller association, knowing I would get fewer varsity games but I also got intense "coaching/mentoring/harassing to improve" by the guys (and gals) in our group. For me, it was the right decision but I certainly don't knock anyone for choosing the larger association. Simply a matter of preference.

Just out of curiousity, do you have to choose or could you join both?

*ONLY* 5 meetings?

How many meetings do you expect to have to go to for 1 association?

I know of an association in Ontario that meets twice a week from September to November, then once a week after that until March. A second association meets every other week from October to March.

Is that a lot?

18 hrs of instruction EVERY YEAR??

If so that is plain nuts.

My, how parochial of you.

Is that who you had on the Mater Dei game?

Seems that a few of your fellow officials out there kinda disagree with your assessment.

I'm sure those were no-cal referees. socal has already informed us his opinion of the nocal guys.

So while the rest of us are working scrimmages your officials are sitting in a classroom every fall.

Sure, I can see how that would make you think you're the best officials in the country. This stuff is easy in the classroom.

We have 7 meetings with a requirement to attend 5. Plus we have to attend a VHSL clinic.

Used be 9 meetings/7 required.

You need 18 hours of instruction every year to know the rules? Long term memory issues?

No, they need the 18 hrs per year to claim they are the best officials in the country.

Don't forget the ability to crap on other officials on a public forum.

So, your summer camps, summer leagues, and scrimmages count towards the 18 hours? If so, it's no different than anywhere else except maybe the formality of the requirement. If not, it's irrelevant to this particular discussion.

Well if you're the best you should be able to crap on whoever (whomever?) you like wherever and whenever you want.

Damn... I really wish I had this 18 hr per year thingy here where I am. Hey Socal, would these classes help me get who & whom straight? I'm never sure which one to use.

Used to be there was a Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy....

I hear he's doing real high level stuff now

He moved to the woman's side?

Ah, yes, you too can enter the magical World Of College And Above. All you have to do is go to class for three years. You may be required to do a few scrimmages also, but only if you feel like it. Yup, it takes less time to be a fully qualified and competent college official in Cali than it does to get a college degree. No need to actually go out on the court and officiate any real games either while you're doing so. Nosiree, BillyJoeJimBob, having game experience isn't really needed.

I'm kinda mystified at a few little thing though. If, every year, there is a graduating class of third-year officials that are ready to go out there to do all of those college games, what happens to all of the guys/gals that were doing them the year before? Do the assignors just have wholesale firings to make room for all of these college-ready third year officials coming in? Do they fire by seniority? Do they fire the most experienced officials first to make room for all of those up-and-comers? If so, how come I still see all of those familiar faces on the PAC10 crews? Hasn't anyone bothered to tell 'em yet that they're redundant and no longer needed?

Do the members of your graduating classes have the option to move to other states to claim college jobs there too, seeing that they're so much better trained and competent than the officials in all of those other states?

And at the high school level, does that mean that every year's graduating class just replaces existing high school officials too? You know, to get ready for the inevitable journey to The Land Of College And Above? Or do they just skip the high school varsity level completely in their first 3 years because there really isn't any advantage to working at that lowly level.

Inquiring minds need to know!!!

Oh, one other little question, if you don't mind. What color is the sky in your world out there?

Hey EGSDOTU, didn't you hear the guy say that he and the rest of the people in his association are THE best in the COUNTRY? Isn't that enough for you?

geeze...

I am glad someone else started this thread, we had a major situation recently in our association and we are still seeing the fall out.

Our association is consistently the best or second best in the state based on playoff assignments and coach's ratings cards. So we take pride in what we do, but with any big group there will always be problems.

In the regular season in LA, boys and girls usually play district games on the same nights (Tuesday and Fridays.) The girls playoffs always start a week before the boys regular season ends to make sure that the best reffs will be available for both the girls playoffs and the boys district games. A few weeks ago the girl's state HS playoffs kicked off on a Thursday night and our association was requested by coaches to be neutral crews for 21 first round games. We work the playoffs in 3 man crews so this was an opportunity for 63 officials to get a playoff assignment. Our assignment secretary made the calls and discovered he had 6 crew chiefs that were not available on that Thursday for the girls.

4 of the crew chiefs were working college games that night and 2 had personal schedule conflicts (NONE illness related). Now keep in mind we know well in advance when the playoffs start and certain reffs know they are crew chiefs and at least two other reffs are counting on them for the opportunity to work a playoff game. So the assignment secretary had to turn down 6 assignments and 12 other officials stayed home.

For round two (the next Monday) of the girls playoffs the assignment secretary received his neutral crew requests and assigned crews based on those who worked round one. So 6 crew chief level reffs got held out of round two of the girls playoff assignments. Of course they raised holy hell about this because working round one and round two meant none of them would get a chance to work the LA Girls Final Four.

These six chiefs decided to recruit other officials and create a new association. In LHSAA bylaws, to have a charter for a new association, you must have a minimum of 8 LHSAA member schools sign a contract to use your association. At last report, it is rumored they have the 8 schools and approximately 20+ officials pledged to join them.

This situation brings up several key issues:
1) 8 LHSAA member schools is good for Freshmen, JV and Varsity assignments only. This is not enough game work for 20+ officials and there is no junior high assignments for the younger reffs to get floor time and make money.
2) of the 20+ officials that pledged to join the new Association, approximately 8 of them work college games so the schedule conflicts will still remain and intensify
3) The LHSAA Asst Commissioner responsible for officials is livid that this group of officials has broken off and it is highly unlikely that he will give them Boys or Girls Final Four playoff assignments in the near term. Any younger reff in this association is basically screwed out of a chance to call the Final Four
4) If any member school is unsatisfied with the new association and chooses to break their contract (which is very common) and go back to the Lafayette Association, the new association wont have enough member schools, will be disbanded by the LHSAA and all of those reffs will be without an officiating job.

I was contacted by the assignment secretary for our association and he asked me where I stood on all of this. I am basically neutral and have close friends on both sides. However I told my secretary that I am loyal to the association I started with and it sounds like I just moved up at least 6 places on the totem pole.

Dan:

I lived in Glendale, Calf. from 1982 until 1984 and was a member of the San Gabriel Valley Unit of the Southern Calf. Bkb. Off. Assn. for the 82-83 and 83-84 season. And the requirements that SoCalRef goes through every year we in place even then. I had been officiating basketball since 1971 and thought the requirements were great for H.S. officiating and still think that they are great for H.S. officiating. IAABO states have a mandatory yearly exam and meeting requirements too. I can honestly say that every game I officiated in Calf., I officiated with a partner who really knew his stuff. Here in Ohio I have officiated varsity games with officials that I would not want to officiate a jr. H.S. game with and it is even worse with many officials from Michigan.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. When I was in Calf. I was evaluated anywhere from 6 to 8 times a year and these evaluations determined whether you officiated in the CIF tournament or not and whether you stayed a varsity official or were dropped down to JV and FR ball.

Geeze, you didn't see that recent Mater Dei game, did you?

Of course, maybe those guys weren't third year officials. They might have been 10, 20 or 30 year officials and weren't qualified to do that game anymore.

Who am I to argue with a denizen of <b>The Land Of College And Above</b>?

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/respect.gif

I can see this requirement for the first three or even five years. After that, however, the law of diminishing returns is bound to kick in and you're bound to be wasting the time of a lot of veteran officials.

My point earlier was that you cannot use "knowing the rules" as a basis for an undending annual requirement for 18 hours of classroom instruction.

Mark, I noticed you refrained from using the words "best", "officials", "in", "the" and "country" in your post. We all have to attend meetings, we all get formal & informal training, we all take tests, we all get evaluated, we all move up & get dropped. Some of us do this for more than just 1 or even 2 associations. All but one of us can control themselves enough to not use the words in my list.

btw, I too lived in SoCal during the 80's and my experience with their basketball officials was spotty at best - but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are the worst in the country.

Opinions, we all have one. :shrug:

In Southern California? Brown....very very brown. :D

I think you could say that about just about any place in the country. I will say that some places are better than others and for example my state has had 3 Person training for years. I would say that that training has produced a lot of well versed officials in 3 Person. But I would not say that this produces the best officials in the country. Maybe there are opportunities that are larger than in other places to learn the 3 Person system, but that does not apply to every official that is exposed to that level of training.

Peace

It is great you have those resources available to you in SoCal. Watching videos that illustrate the correct application of the rules is awesome. I spend as much time as possible watching these. EOfficials has the great NCAA set available online. I also have noticed that the best officials at the 2 camps I work at each summer spend the most time in our break room watching the films of the NCAA and NBA examples of rule application. You can find people willing to help and develop officials anywhere. Glad you have found a good spot for you in SoCal, and that you are doing the Vegas camp this summer. Great things to do!

Remember, it is wasteful for veteran officials to spend 18 hours of clasroom training, but it is OK to spend 100's of hours on the Internet being jealous of the "LOCAA" folks and fighting about irrelevant nuances. I always thought basketball was basketball, whether it is 3rd grade or NCAA. We need Obama to weigh in here!

The day I claim my discussions with you make me a better official is the day your quote above becomes relevant.

Until then....

LOL

Yes, each organization prohibits its members from accepting assignments from the other. The large group even prohibits its members from accepting collegiate assignments from the smaller group's assignor.

It's an unfortunate situation where a group of unhappy officials broke with the large organization over a question of where the $$$ went and started the smaller group. It all happened before I became an official, so I went with the group that I thought (and still think) is best for me. Having spoke with folks in both groups, there are still bad feelings to this day over the rift.

Well what you just suggested is not unique to where you live. I belong to multiple organizations that have D1 officials working with officials and running camps. And we do not have an "instructional staff" to accomplish a high level of training. So what you are describing is not something only in one part of the country. I am sure there are many places that have officials that work all those levels.

Peace

That's unfortunate.

That does not sound like politics. That sounds like a stupid system.

Peace

You keep focusing on the 18 hours as if everyone learns the same way or picks up on the information equally. Unfortunately that is not always true and if that time in training becomes redundant or tiresome for many, than you have officials that are not picking up on everything. And if I am not mistaken, your area is not working 3 Person across the board for all games. If that is the case (and I could be wrong) then what are officials really getting out of the training when so much of officiating is understanding and practicing a system that helps officials get to the next level.

Peace

Dan:

In Ohio, officials are not evaluated. The coaches tell the league assigners which officials can officiate varsity games in their league. One coach can black ball an officical from his league. Coaches vote on which officials can officiate in the post season tournament.

MTD, Sr.

Poetic justice would be allowing officials to vote on which coaches can coach in the post-season tournament.

Agreed. But politics is the reason the "stupid system" exists.

Springfield: southwest missouri baskeotball official association / basketball officials of the ozark? (k. h. V d. v.)

Are you telling me that the average official in Cali does 100 regular season high school games in his first year? One hundred? And one hundred regular season high school games a year for the next 2 years also? WOW!

If the assignors hire for those 40 JC's, what is the criteria used by those assignors for the officials that they are letting go every year to make room for those new hires.

Are you currently a D1 official in Cali? If so, for what leagues? If not, why not?

It might be a stupid system, but I have not heard one example from you that prevents you from working. What is the system preventing you from doing? You vote for board members right? You decide to attend meetings right? You decide to attend camps right? What is the system preventing you from doing?

Peace

That's just crazy talk, Jeff.

Heresy! Heresy, I tell ya!:D

I did not state and did not intend to imply that the system ever prevented me from doing anything. I was only offering the example of having two local associations in response to the lament in the OP that the next closest association was a great distance away.

I mentioned 'good ol boy' network before, and you admonished me somewhat.
I'm now walking on your side of the street. As you said, it is what it is. Does it go on? Probably to some extent varying from assignor to assignor. Can I control it or change the system? No, nor should I try.

I had my most satisfying year officiating on many levels, starting with working, studying, attending more camps and listening more than ever. I had a better schedule, tournament games, and also helped assignors out with emergencies and an occassional lower level game that needed last minute filling which I was more than glad to do. You're right, if you just put your head down and work the right way, good things will happen. Nothing's perfect and I'm not going to get every date I want, but very few do.

Officiating and all it entails is a perfect microcosm of any other part of society.

Rut, you have to keep in mind that SWMOZEBRA is part of an organization where they appointed their successor(s). They tell the member(s) how to vote.

The larger organization ask you to join their association; you pay your dues and they still say you have to work 5 games for free before they assign you any games. Now do get this wrong. They evaluated you for 5 free games and these free games are during a camp in which you have to pay to attend. Before they assign you any games. IT'S TRUE; IT'S TRUE!!!

I think you might be referring to the SMBOA, which is the larger organization. I'm in the other one. :) I don't know if what you're saying is true or not, my limited experience with the SMBOA is mostly through required mechanics clinics and rules meetings.

I was not admonishing you. I just wanted to make it clear to you and others that if you stop worrying about the system and work within the system. And in our system you did exactly what I tell people to do all the time. It appears that advice (not just me I am sure) worked out for you. I just think there are people that say politics is the reason they do not accomplish things, but they never take responsibility for their own failures or shortcomings. And if you look at me there are many people that feel I am connected to all kinds of people and I get opportunities that I have because of those connections. Now if that is true, why is it that I cannot work on of the most famous tournaments in the country? There are places all of us cannot get into or people that will not hire us. Just do a little research and you will see even the most big time officials cannot go places because the right (or wrong) people do not like them or respect their abilities (or outside stuff we will never know about).

My problem has always been that people want to believe that they are being held back because someone is making decisions in the back room or because they do not go to the bar. Then they chalk it up to "politics" instead of what they are unwilling to do to be seen. Each official is their own salesperson and it is up to each of us to sell ourselves because most of the time no one else will.

Peace

Then shame on the membership for allowing people to tell you how to vote. That is not politics, that is stupidity if you ask me.

How are those free games when you are attending a camp?

And that sounds like they give you plenty of opportunity to shine. Five games is a lot for even a lot for the $500 camp to show your ability.

Peace

Admonish.........
1. To reprove gently but earnestly.

And I'm glad you did;)

Well if you say it that way. :D

Peace

I've seen quite a few officials from Southern California and I wouldn't classify them as any better or worse than officials from other parts of the country...except Mississippi. :D

When speaking of better games to get better quickly you must realize that this can hurt an official as much if not more than help. If you are in over your head too soon, it could stunt your growth and you can continue to make the same mistakes for years.

I can also say with 100% certainty that the west coast has some of the most BS politics in the country. What you wear to meetings, in camps, how you have to "work the room." I love the west coast for some reasons and hate it for others. Politics is something that is brutal out west.

The point(s) I were trying to make are: (Outside of camp settings).

(1). 5 free games outside of the camp setting
(2). They make it a requirement for you to attend their camps and if you don't they will not assign you any games even after you paid for membership.

Well not to call your bluff, I'm aware of the assignor; prez in the smaller org.

I am trying to figure out why this is a problem. You realize there was an official on here bragging about how many hours of

Welcome to the real world of officiating. That is a very common occurrence at the local level and at the college level to make you go to camps. Look, when people assign you games they have a right to require some things. Just because it is not something we like does not mean it is an unfair request. I know I have to log on to Assign By Web in order to work for certain people and in some cases it can be a pain because so many assignors I work for require different log on sites in order to get just one game. And in some cases games are just filled even if I have not consent first. That is not completely fair to me in my opinion, but that is the system. I would not claim "politics" because if I do not want to work for them, I can always take my name off the list.

Peace

This has cost me games. I will not pay $300 for a camp just to work a high school conference. If I want to go to a camp, I'll go, but just to break even for a half-dozen high school games? No thanks.

Great post, as usual.

Mark,

Isn't this an evaluation process?

It wasn't about getting an apology out of you, but since you offer it I'll accept it for the rest of the forum. There are a lot of damn good officials in every part of the country and there are also some really bad ones. No one area holds the keys to this game. I think we agree on that.

I have never paid more than a $150 to attend a HS only camp. And the camp where I paid $150, I was seen by multiple assignors for both college and high school leagues. And I was evaluated by D1 officials and I get another chance to work 3 Person and see more plays, very worth it to me. I make enough money during the season I have no problem investing in myself to see where I have come while officiating.

Most HS camps are in the $50 to $60 dollar range in my area. And you are paying for some extra power points in our over all playoff system.

Some people like going out to eat after every game. I use my money that I make during the season to attend camps and to pick up other officiating related expenses. Not a big deal as far as I am concerned.

Peace

Dan:

No it isn't. Before an official can get a varsity game from a league assigner, that official must have his name given to the assigner by a coach in the league. If no official will recommend the official that official will not get games. And all it takes is one coach to tell an assigner that he doesn't want him in the league and that official is out. There is not evaluation process.

MTD, Sr.

I'm sorry Mark, but this is an evaluation process. Official X recommends or does not recommend official Y for varsity games. Official X has evaluated official Y and he decides either Y is or isn't ready. If Y gets enough positive evaluations he's in, otherwise he's not.

Blacklisting is a way for coaches to evaluate officials that has an immediate impact for that coach.

You may not like it, but evaluation is exactly what this is.

Welcome to the real world of officiating. That is a very common occurrence at the local level and at the college level to make you go to camps. Look, when people assign you games they have a right to require some things. Just because it is not something we like does not mean it is an unfair request.


Rut, I'm not disagreeing with you. Once, again I'm trying to point out at the local association level they put additional requirements on officials after they have agreed to join them. These additional requirments are not covered in their operating procedures (constitution and by-laws). Like working five(5) games for free.

I have a couple points on these issues.

- Rut is right regarding politics, he hit it dead on. Politics are going to exist in some form everywhere and a lot of it is a matter of perception. If you are one of the "good ol' boys" you probably don't see things the same way as the guy who feels held back. The key is to understand the situation and work within the situation rather than complain about it or even try to change it. A situation usually exists because most of the people accept it.

- Control what you can control. If you recognize that certain people don't like you or your game (which happens to everyone), find someone who thinks differently and work for that person. If you are in a situation where you can't find anyone who will give you any sort of a shot, you need to either move somewhere else or make changes in yourself. The only people who I have seen in this business who have been unable to get a shot from absolutely anyone are people who need to look in the mirror rather than at politics.

- One of the reasons the good old boys continually get big assignments is that they've proven dependable in the past to the assignor and are known to the coaches. An assignor can get himself in a lot of heat for putting someone who's not ready on a big game if something happens in that game, whereas his backside is covered if something happens in the game with the vets. One of the values of experience is proven reliability, which is a huge attribute to an assignor.

- As someone who's moved up fairly quickly, there's great advice on here about not rushing up the ladder. I was very eager to break into college quickly as it is somewhat competitive now with younger officials, and thought I was ready a year before I got in. I am glad that I took that year and my coordinator is breaking me in slowly because it means that I will be ready and able to handle things better. Coaches have long memories, as do assignors, and I've seen careers fizzle from rushing up too early.

- Don't take all praise literally. An easy way to think you're getting politicked out of games is if you go to a camp and they tell you you're the greatest thing since sliced bread and you hear all the talk about higher levels, then you go back to your small school V schedule or a mixed JV/V schedule in your association. The best thing about camp is the criticism and learning how to self evaluate to improve, but it's easy to start seeing stars and losing perspective. The easiest way to fail as an official IMO is to start being jealous of fellow refs and comparing yourself to them rather than focusing on improving yourself.

Sorry for the ramble, but this is my take on politics.

No need to apologize, that's all good stuff. I think JRut & yourself nailed it!
Although I'm just a young official, hearing the "political" excuse is already old to me. Most cases are people who think they are better than they really are or people whose time has come & gone...

Does politics in officiating assigning/advancement exist? Of course, but no more than the politics in our everyday lives ie: work, relationships, etc.

Camps to me are the cost of doing business and the business happens to be officiating. Foremost, I enjoy camps, they act as a barometer to gauge my improvement. As you mentioned , and I think you're refering to the same camp, you have the opportunity to be seen by some of the best D1 guys around. How can you top that? You're also being seen by assignors and that leads to more and better games. I don't go to hear that I did a good job, I want the light bulb to go off, when an evaluator gives me a little nuance or philosophy that he uses. I have a favorite guy at the camp who never fails to give me an insight on how he manages a game. It's invaluable.

I just know every year I'm spending a few bucks on camps. One weekend during the season doing kids games more than pays the tab for two or three of them.

And to tag onto the discussion, I don't compare myself to other officials there, I only want to improve my game.

Dan:

I hate to disagree with you but the OhioHSAA does not have an evaluation process. There are not forms for coaches to fill out (even though I doubt a coach could complete one, :D ), coaches recommend officials who they like based upon whether they agree with the officials' calls or not. It is a giant popularity contest.

MTD, Sr.

If you are expecting every policy to be in the constitution or by-laws, then that is a very unrealistic request. When people hire you, they do not tell you all the little things you have to do. I do not see working 5 games to be evaluated as unreasonable. And I certainly do not feel that has to be spelled out for you. If you do not want to do it, then you suffer the consequences. And if you cannot work 5 games to get a chance at real games in the season, then I would not want you on the real games as an assignor.

Peace

Well, I'm pretty much retired now from active officiating due to a combination of age and bad knees. I do try to keep a little bit involved though by both training and evaluating officials, as well as also assigning all area games- in both football and basketball.

The play team sports in Hell?

This is the key to the "college-ready in 3 years" statement.

This is not just true in basketball, but several other sports as well. If an official shows any talent or potential, the college assignors will snap them up in a hurry. They have so many games to cover, they need the bodies. New college officials will start at the JC/NAIA/D3 level for a few years, if they show that they can handle that, they move up to D2. It is still not easy to make it to D1, but at least the D1 assignors know that they are getting an official that has had a good amount of college level work.

Personally, I have seen and worked with SoCal officials in the two sports I have been involved in that I wouldn't trust on a girls JV game. I have also seen some very good officials from SoCal. SoCal is just like anywhere else..there are good officials and bad officials....you can't just measure quality by what level of ball you work.

So what are you saying, that girls JV is less quality than boys JV... :D

And that summary I can agree with completely. You measure quality by quality, not years or the level currently being worked. Period. Jmo, but I think that it's true for most other areas too outside of Cali.

College-ready doesn't necessarily equate to officiating competency. As you said, it might just equate to being available in some instances. And it certainly doesn't mean that any official is automatically better than their high school brethren just because they're doing a few JUCO/D3 games. It depends solely on the <b>individual</b> official imo. I've seen quite a few individuals that I'd rate as being outstanding officials that simply do not want to work beyond the high school level, for one reason or another.

It's an assignor's job to supply competent, qualified officials needed for the different levels. If an assignor can't do so, he won't be assigning that particular level for very long. Politics and friendship can only go so far.

Jmo.

:D

The other point that is missing about college ready is that college assignors will not necessarily hire the best ref available but will instead hire the ref who has the most potential so he can build the ranks. I've seen a number of very very good older officials not get hired at the college level while younger guys on the way up get the look. Of course this varies from coordinator to coordinator, area to area, but it makes sense to hire someone who will be working for you for 20 years rather than someone who might just arrive for a cup of coffee, so long as the young ref has reached a certain level of competence.

BTW your last post before this one was outstanding.

Also what can get you hired is your location. John Adams that is the soon to be NCAA Men's Coordinator made it very clear to campers that were prospective D2 officials for the conference he assigned, if you lived in certain locations you would get hired pretty much off the spot. And that was very clear who he did not hire when I attended his last camp. So it is not every about who they can mold. Sometimes it is where you live and how many games they can give you in certain locations without much of a problem.

Peace

We also need to acknowledge that "college-ready" will differ from place to place. If there are more colleges in an area, they will need more officials and will hire some peop-le who would never even get a second glance in an area with fewer colleges...or the fact that when one college assignor picks up a newer official, other assignors feel like they "have" to hire that person also so they won't "lose" them. At times it makes absolutely no sense...

And as far as SoCal officials, I work games with officials from SoCal. Some of them are very good. Some stink...either way, it's certainly not because of where they are from.

All this jealousy. There are a lot of great baseball players that never make the show, but none of them choose to stay in Single A ball. By limiting the level you work, you limit your ceiling as an official. My experience is that people who try and draw distinctions between college and high school officials are the ones who have the same excuses as those who blame politics for their lack of advancement. You don't hear college officials complaining about anything, or bragging about assignments to make themselves feel good. But there is a searing envy that comes from the HS lifers, or those who get dropped from college rosters. LOCAA means nothing to college officials. If you have judgment, you can work.

College assignors are looking for people that they can mold and develop in their own image. Some officials do get their shot at D-1 after 4-5 years of officiating, whether they have much experience in lower-level college games or not. They are more concerned with bodies breaking down for officials who get past the age of 40, which is a legitimate concern. Very few 25-35 year-old officials have physical problems. That's a big reason they get shots over a grizzled veteran of 40.

ROFLMAO!!! What a crock...they absolutely do complain about schedules and brag about schedules - there are the exact same complaints and brags in a college roster as there are in a HS roster - Who got this or that "big" game? Why do I have to go to School A 5 times this season? Why is so-and-so working this game and I'm on this other game...

If you honestly think that "schedule comparing" doesn't go on at the college level, then you are more out of touch with reality than I thought.

Rock, Old School Jr. has absolutely no knowledge or experience as to what's happening at the college level. He's made that painfully clear in his previous attempts at posting. It's doubtful that he's an official in the first place.

Just another troll wandering through.....:rolleyes:

Btw, OldSchool/Oracle, Rocky worked a D2 Final Four last year, in case you're wondering about <b>his</b> credentials.

Mark,

Who gives a sh1t. :shrug: