Your thoughts please.

[Tio]

I agree with Chitown. Why did you ignore his gestures? Addressing that may have prevented the situation at the end of the game.

I would just ignore his comments at the end of the game. If you have a good rapport with the coach, it might be worth mentioning and left to him to handle as he chooses, but I don't think a post-game T does much for the situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I would just ignore his comments at the end of the game. If you have a good rapport with the coach, it might be worth mentioning and left to him to handle as he chooses, but I don't think a post-game T does much for the situation.

Sure it does. At this level, it teaches the player that the final horn does not give him license to get stupid.

At the high school level, those Ts can add up, even without ejections. Colorado, for example, wants all Ts reported just for this reason; so they can identify repeat offenders even when they aren't getting ejected.

[Tio]

I guess we will disagree then. Calling a T after the game is over just draws undue attention to an official or crew. This situation should have been managed before the game, not after. Now if the kid chases the crew off the floor, that is a different story.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I guess we will disagree then. Calling a T after the game is over just draws undue attention to an official or crew. This situation should have been managed before the game, not after. Now if the kid chases the crew off the floor, that is a different story.

I'm at work in Denver, and my rule book is at home with my computer, but there is a case play which shows definitively that the NFHS agrees with me on this.

I agree with this, in most cases. For the same reason you want to quickly deal with a coach who constantly yet relatively quietly chirps, "travel, double dribble, that was a foul...." you want to address a whiny player early.

This might just be flagrant, IMO.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm at work in Denver, and my rule book is at home with my computer, but there is a case play which shows definitively that the NFHS agrees with me on this.

I agree with this, in most cases. For the same reason you want to quickly deal with a coach who constantly yet relatively quietly chirps, "travel, double dribble, that was a foul...." you want to address a whiny player early.

This might just be flagrant, IMO.

Does the Fed also advocate an official chasing down a player and issuing an ultimatum?

Originally Posted by Reffing Hoosier

I head straight for him and tell "you want to continue to play this weekend you will need to keep you mouth shut".

I think the official has to eat this one. No T and learn from the situation to improve, just as I'm sure that s/he did.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Does the Fed also advocate an official chasing down a player and issuing an ultimatum?

Come on, Juggler. You know me well enough to know that's not what I said. In fact, my original post on this said either give the T or let it go. My only point with Tio was that giving a T here is not the narcissistic move he claimed it was "Calling a T after the game is over just draws undue attention to an official or crew."

Chasing down the player is the worst move, and the OP seems to have learned that.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I think the official has to eat this one. No T and learn from the situation to improve, just as I'm sure that s/he did.

Why does the official have "to eat this one?"

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does the official have "to eat this one?"

Couldn't agree with this more. No way am I letting an 8th grader address me in this manner. It has to be dealt with. If you are taking this from an 8th grader, what are you going to take from a high school player?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does the official have "to eat this one?"

Does the official have to eat this one? No, not by any means.

Should the official eat this one? Probably.

Why? Because he did a poor job of managing this problem waiting to happen for the entire game. It doesn't make much sense to start managing properly now that the game is over. JMO

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Come on, Juggler. You know me well enough to know that's not what I said. In fact, my original post on this said either give the T or let it go. My only point with Tio was that giving a T here is not the narcissistic move he claimed it was "Calling a T after the game is over just draws undue attention to an official or crew."

You're right - I stretched things a bit there.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does the official have "to eat this one?"

I just don't think that "you suck" is enough to start being consistent with the rule, particularily when it's at the end of the game. He should eat it, rather.

In the OP, the acts of the player were clearly to influence the decision of the officials, but no T was ever issued. It certainly sounds like the player's attitude continued to rise because the official didn't take care of business earlier.

Edit: to deal with nothing during the game and then issue a T at the end sends mixed signals. Yes, the player should not have told the referee that "[he] sucks", but I also believe that the art of officiating comes into play: the player didn't have any chance to adapt to the rulings of the official. He a player kept doing the NBA-step travel before a shot, and was called for it, then s/he could adapt to the judgment of the official.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I think the official has to eat this one. No T and learn from the situation to improve, just as I'm sure that s/he did.

What????

The kid started the who exchange with "You Suck" then walked away. I agree that the officials shouldn't have followed him to have a conversation but if an 8th grader says that to me, it WILL be answered by a whistle and a T...perhaps a flagrant T depending on the circumstances.

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm at work in Denver, and my rule book is at home with my computer, but there is a case play which shows definitively that the NFHS agrees with me on this.

I agree with this, in most cases. For the same reason you want to quickly deal with a coach who constantly yet relatively quietly chirps, "travel, double dribble, that was a foul...." you want to address a whiny player early.

This might just be flagrant, IMO.

Have fun explaining this as a flagrant T. I hope your coordinator agrees with you.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

Have fun explaining this as a flagrant T. I hope your coordinator agrees with you.

Kid tries to chase me down while I'm leaving the court to yell at me? Haven't had an assignor yet who wouldn't back up a flagrant call.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Tio

Have fun explaining this as a flagrant T. I hope your coordinator agrees with you.

WTF else would it be??? A kid chases after you as you are leaving the court to yell at you, and you're gonna do nothing?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

WTF else would it be??? A kid chases after you as you are leaving the court to yell at you, and you're gonna do nothing?

You must forgive Rocky, he's had a very difficult season dealing with his own coordinator and is a little gunshy sensitive... of course why someone would be even remotely concerned about explaining a T to the coordinator of a 8th grade CYO game is beyond me, but obviously some are. :shrug:

Anyways Rock, go lie down for a while, at least until you stop shaking...