Your thoughts please.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Once the score is approved or the officials have left the visual confines of the court, the jurisdiction has ended.
In the original post of this thread, the comments came immediately after the 4th quarter horn sounded.

You want to re-think that?

The final score is approved and our jurisdiction ends when we leave the visual confines.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You want to re-think that?

The final score is approved and our jurisdiction ends when we leave the visual confines.

Hopefully, I'll remember to check my book once I get home tonight. I might be conflating the two.

edited to add:
I just realized, I was using the official MA interpretation.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Again...depends on the level J R. In my case from Saturday...it worked quite well...the kid calmed down and I had no issues with him after our chat...That's not gonna work in all cases though....

Trust me, don't ever, ever touch a player.

Along those lines was at the IU/NU game a few weeks back at NU. Officials run off the court , right by NU student section. One official, has both hands across his midsection as he leaves, escorted by security avoiding any "He touched, grabbed, pinched, pushed, punched me" claim from a whacko fan.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Hmmm... good point.

Wouldn't want to blow your big chance to move up to the big time because you're thin-skinned, unprofessional and un-approachable... (hey Rocky, where have I heard that before

Why whatever do you mean Dan??? I have no idea - none I tell you - what you could be referring to.

See, those hypnotism sessions are working quite well!!

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Trust me, don't ever, ever touch a player.

Along those lines was at the IU/NU game a few weeks back at NU. Officials run off the court , right by NU student section. One official, has both hands across his midsection as he leaves, escorted by security avoiding any "He touched, grabbed, pinched, pushed, punched me" claim from a whacko fan.

I guess when I think about that aspect of it, it's good reasoning....

Do you feel the same about two kids who decide they want to go toe to toe....and again, I'm talking about lower level stuff...not necessarily V/NCAA. I just feel on some levels we have a responsibility to ensure the safety of the kids and I'm willing to deal with any backlash that comes from me getting between and seperating two kids by grabbing/bearhugging one and moving him out of the immediate area.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Do you feel the same about two kids who decide they want to go toe to toe....and again, I'm talking about lower level stuff...not necessarily V/NCAA. I just feel on some levels we have a responsibility to ensure the safety of the kids and I'm willing to deal with any backlash that comes from me getting between and seperating two kids by grabbing/bearhugging one and moving him out of the immediate area.

That backlash could be severe. I'm not willing to risk that. Use your whistle loudly, repeatedly, and in close proximity until they step back.
If they're small enough, I might step in between; but I'm not going to initiate contact in this case.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I guess when I think about that aspect of it, it's good reasoning....

Do you feel the same about two kids who decide they want to go toe to toe....and again, I'm talking about lower level stuff...not necessarily V/NCAA. I just feel on some levels we have a responsibility to ensure the safety of the kids and I'm willing to deal with any backlash that comes from me getting between and seperating two kids by grabbing/bearhugging one and moving him out of the immediate area.

I've been taught over and over again that if I see two players getting heated and can get between them without physically moving them - ie, they haven't started physically touching each other yet - then I can make that call. But if they are too close or already involved in an altercation, do as Snaqs posted and wait for security/game administration to separate them.

[ma_ref]

If it were me officiating a lower level game, I might try to get between players before it came to fisticuffs. But if they had started fighting, no way would I personally try to break it up. Leave that to the site admins and coaches. This was one of the first things we were told at our training classes as we studied to become certified. Never touch/grab a player. Period.

As an example, and I don't think this is too far fetched, but suppose you're working a girls game (level doesn't matter - 5th grade, high school varsity, whatever). You've got a hard foul, and 1 of the girls takes issue with it, and the 2 start going at it. You're trying to break things up, when your hand accidentally brushes across her chest in the process. Think she cares it was inadvertant contact and that all you were trying to do is break up the fight? Think her parents care? A boys game would probably be more forgiving for the above incident, however I don't think we could say it's ok to break up fights during boys contests, but not girls. Best advice is to leave them alone. Coaches can and should restrain their players. Our job is to penalize the offenders according to rule.

[Adam]

Mommy needs to be prosecuted for neglect.

My fear, though, would be that I'd grab the kid's arm too hard and cause damage. I'm staying out and taking numbers.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I guess when I think about that aspect of it, it's good reasoning....

Do you feel the same about two kids who decide they want to go toe to toe....and again, I'm talking about lower level stuff...not necessarily V/NCAA. I just feel on some levels we have a responsibility to ensure the safety of the kids and I'm willing to deal with any backlash that comes from me getting between and seperating two kids by grabbing/bearhugging one and moving him out of the immediate area.

There was a game this season at the high school level where a fight broke out. Player A wound up to swing at player B, ref grabbed his arm before he could swing. After game, there is a knock on the locker room door and the cops are ready to arrest the official who grabbed the kid's arm. Mommy wanted to press charges. Cops refused to.

I'm a basketball official, not a bouncer. That said, when I see it right in front of me, I'd probably do the same.

Hill Street Blues "Be careful out there"

[Coltdoggs]

Gents...I want to say thanks for all the input on this...it's been interesting to see some sides I had not given a lot of thought to and will most certainly take into account going forward.

Fullor...your last post....crazy that a parent would want to press charges in something like that but unfortunatley...it doesn't surprise me either...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

See, those hypnotism sessions are working quite well!!

When you see me make the sign of the "T", you will wake up feeling refreshed and will remember nothing. Ready? Here goes. How are you feeling? Fine? Good. Now - YOU'RE OUTTA HERE!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Why whatever do you mean Dan??? I have no idea - none I tell you - what you could be referring to.

See, those hypnotism sessions are working quite well!!

You are now getting sleepy...sleepy...sleepy...

When you wake up, you will be no taller than Chuck!

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Fullor...your last post....crazy that a parent would want to press charges in something like that but unfortunatley...it doesn't surprise me either...

Colt - think about it this way. What if you get between the two and "touch" one a bit too hard and they lose their balance, fall and smack their head on the court.....and there you are...... It could happen.

Makes me think long and hard about getting involved at all, above a bunch of loud, repeated whistles as has been discussed.

But, when the fit hits the shan, if it ever does, I'll see how I react in the heat of the moment.

[rockyroad]

Number of years ago - boys Varsity. Two players start swinging. Ref steps up and grabs one of them (the more aggressive of the two) from behind to pull him away. Other player takes that opportunity to throw a nice right hook to the jaw of the player whose arms are pinned by the official. Result: the official ended up paying for the dental work to replace two lost teeth...never grab a player involved in a fight!