SC 4A Final - you make the call

[Brad]

Originally Posted by socalreff

The ball was clearly in flight before the LED light and the horn.

Agreed ... The video shows the ball released before the LED and before the horn.

Originally Posted by socalreff

Have you ever had a call that you thought you nailed and then looked at it on tape and were clearly wrong?

Exactly ... Saying that they missed it is not a rip on these officials. They are in a VERY tough spot with this call. This is why we have a monitor now in college - because of plays like this. If they had been able to go to a monitor they would have counted the shot, no doubt in my mind.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Brad

Exactly ... Saying that they missed it is not a rip on these officials.

Yep. And saying they missed it is completely different than saying they guessed.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yep. And saying they missed it is completely different than saying they guessed.

For sure.

I was reviewing a game tape just this week and saw a call that I make that I didn't like - I missed it.

The video at the NCAA meeting every year is made up of missed plays from the NCAA tournament, which arguably uses the best 96 NCAA officials in the country.

The NBA posts videos online every day for its officials - arguably the best in the world.

We miss plays. That doesn't mean that we are poor officials. If you referee for any significant length of time you are going to make a call that has a big impact on a game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Brad

We miss plays. That doesn't mean that we are poor officials. If you referee for any significant length of time you are going to make a call that has a big impact on a game.

The issue was not whether they only missed the play. The issue was that someone wanted to claim not only did they miss play, but they did not follow the rules properly as well. It is very possible they missed this play, but they did follow the rules as far as we know and took the time to get it right as well as they could. If this was an NCAA game, they likely would have been able to review the play to make sure. Also the angle would be very different and there would be better technologies to help get this call right. These officials had one shot and they did the best they could.

Peace

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Brad

Agreed ... The video shows the ball released before the LED and before the horn.


Exactly ... Saying that they missed it is not a rip on these officials. They are in a VERY tough spot with this call. This is why we have a monitor now in college - because of plays like this. If they had been able to go to a monitor they would have counted the shot, no doubt in my mind.

Brad,
I guess my eyes are going....

I haven't seen anything...regular speed....slow motion...or even frame by frame, that shows the ball "clearly" away from the shooters hand before the light/horn goes off.

In fact, the frame by frame pics shows the blurry ball and the blurry shooting hand, with his fingers POINTING back at him in the classic shooting pose, in frame 10. I just don't see the ball away from the hand "clearly" in that frame.

Sure, the next frame has the ball away...but, the light is already on.

Again, I haven't seen/heard any clear evidence that the ball is away and the light on....or horn sounded.

I'm with JR...tough call...can't fault officials either way.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

I haven't seen anything...regular speed....slow motion...or even frame by frame, that shows the ball "clearly" away from the shooters hand before the light/horn goes off.

In fact, the frame by frame pics shows the blurry ball and the blurry shooting hand, with his fingers POINTING back at him in the classic shooting pose, in frame 10. I just don't see the ball away from the hand "clearly" in that frame.

Sure, the next frame has the ball away...but, the light is already on.

Again, I haven't seen/heard any clear evidence that the ball is away and the light on....or horn sounded.

That's my take on the frame-to-frame sequence too. I could review that and I don't think that I could really make a definitive call, one way or another. Iow, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Brad,
I guess my eyes are going....

I haven't seen anything...regular speed....slow motion...or even frame by frame, that shows the ball "clearly" away from the shooters hand before the light/horn goes off.

Maybe you're just not as good as me

It's close... but watching the video for the LED lights and listening for the horn, it appears that he has released the ball in both cases.

If this play is *THAT* close, why wouldn't you award the miracle basket and play at the end of the game? We don't know the discussion of the officials though -- maybe they didn't think it was *THAT* close...

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Brad

Maybe you're just not as good as me

It's close... but watching the video for the LED lights and listening for the horn, it appears that he has released the ball in both cases.

If this play is *THAT* close, why wouldn't you award the miracle basket and play at the end of the game? We don't know the discussion of the officials though -- maybe they didn't think it was *THAT* close...

That's how tough this call is..........I've looked at the video over 20 times and thought no good. Saw the youtube version and wasn't quite sure. Now looking at frame by frame, it might have been good.

I echo JR's thoughts .........tough, tough call.

To think those three guys probably got 60 bucks apiece for the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

That's how tough this call is..........I've looked at the video over 20 times and thought no good. Saw the youtube version and wasn't quite sure. Now looking at frame by frame, it might have been good.

I echo JR's thoughts .........tough, tough call.

To think those three guys probably got 60 bucks apiece for the game.

I am just going to take a guess, but they got well over $60 for that game. It was a State Championship game, not your local conference game.

Peace

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am just going to take a guess, but they got well over $60 for that game. It was a State Championship game, not your local conference game.

Peace

I bet Rut is right. I don't know about other states but in Indiana you get $90.00 plus $.20/mile round trip to work the State Championship game.

[JRutledge]

In Illinois basketball the State Final officials (12 officials) get $130 a game and up to 3 nights in a hotel. And that is two games for the weekend.

Peace

[jdw3018]

Actually, $63 (plus travel) is the fee for state championship games in SC, which is equal to the regular season fee for double-headers.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Actually, $63 (plus travel) is the fee for state championship games in SC, which is equal to the regular season fee for double-headers.

You only get $63 & that is to work both games....

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am just going to take a guess, but they got well over $60 for that game. It was a State Championship game, not your local conference game.

Peace

Goes to show you how many state finals I've done.

I was thinking the other day as I finished two intramural games at the local middle school five minutes from my house which took 1:05 for 55.00 bucks that I get the princely sum of 53 large ones for a varsity game that I may have to drive an hour to and arrive an hour before tipoff for an hour and thirty minute game.

That said, give me the varsity game anyday. Psst, don't tell them, I'd probably do it for gratis.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Brad

Maybe you're just not as good as me

Fair enough...

Originally Posted by Brad

If this play is *THAT* close, why wouldn't you award the miracle basket and play at the end of the game? We don't know the discussion of the officials though -- maybe they didn't think it was *THAT* close...

If you are asking me why I wouldn't award the "miracle" basket...well, maybe I would. I would have to be there to make that determination...rather than watching a few blurry video clips.

Also, maybe the crew didn't want to (or have information to) overturn the official that originally WAVED the basket off. As you said, we don't know the discussion of the other officials.

I guess that's why we make the big bucks....$50 a game for Regional games here in my part of WA...and .48 cents a mile travel both ways. $10 meal allowance if over 75 miles...and $50 lodging if over 125 miles. (One official I worked with, in a Regional, got his motel paid for even though it was probably over $50 a night)

Can't remember what State pays...didn't go this year...maybe zebraman can help...he went to Yakima, WA this year for the State tournament.