My season is <sniff> over

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is an official here that in her 5th year worked a Sectional Final on the girl's side and past so many male officials (regardless of color). To clarify, it takes many officials 10+ years to be even ready to work a Sectional Final on the Girl's side and this official (who is not bad) in her 5th overall year beat many officials that had much more playoff experience than she did. I personally do not have a problem with that because I know women are needed and wanted at that level. And for those that do not know, working a Sectional is the second-tier level in our post season out of 5 steps. When you work a Sectional, you are what we call "in the pipeline" to work a state final. You are considered to be one of the best officials in the state if you can achieve that level (right or wrong).

Peace

Six seasons for a sectional here, personally. I'm very happy to be assigned to the game, but I wonder about the process sometimes.

Certainly not in the pipeline here, I don't think, just cause you've made a sectional. And sectionals here is the 4th round - it takes 5 wins in most levels to make the state tourney.

Hey Juulie, Rita & any other women who frequent the board. I feel so bad because my intent was not to belittle Womens ball! I do however prefer Mens, I love working above the rim ball. I do have that right dont I?

Actually I was just attempting to show the progress I made this season (due to your helping me grow). Here in CO, the new officials start out with girls varsity ball & get the boys once they prove they can handle girls... I didn't make the rule, it's just the way it is HERE.
Hell, the few women officials here prefer to work boys games as well. I was just simply pointing out that I worked mostly girls during the regular season & must've did something right in the assignors eyes to get 3 boys post-season games my first time out the gate.

FTR, I give the same effort for any level/gender game I work. That's probably the main reason I got an opportunity so quickly.

The main thing was to thank the board for helping me grow & develop into a half-way decent official... yourself included Juulie! I learned from you as well, I read your articles & implemented some of the things you speak about into my game. Nothing but love for you & Womens Basketball!!

So thanks once again for teaching me things that can't be learned from a rulebook!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

not nearly enough grovelling

There he is!! He's the one who started this!!! Let's get him...!!

[Back In The Saddle]

I guess some people haven't figured out that you can hate women's basketball without hating women. They are not one and the same.

Perhaps it's all just too subtle, and I don't get it, but here are the basic facts of basketball officiating life as I have learned them.

Fact: New officials are not to be trusted. Until proven otherwise it's best to assume they know too little, are too slow, don't have the skills, can't handle the pressure, and will fail if simply thrown into any group/association's biggest games.

Fact: In order to prove one's ability to anybody that assigns games, you must be able and prepared to demonstrate proficiency at working "lower level" games.

Fact: Slower, less intense, more sparsely attended games are lower level games. And any competent assigner at any level will use those games to develop and prove newer officials.

Fact: Freshman games are slower, less intense, and more sparsely attended than junior varsity games which are, in turn, slower, less intense, and more sparsely attended than varsity games. Therefore freshman games are lower level than junior varsity games, which are, in turn, lower level than varsity games.

Fact: At every level, freshman, sophmore, junior varisity, and varsity, the girls' games are slower, less intense, and more sparsely attended than the boys'.

Fact: Most officials, certainly the officials that frequent this board, want to work faster, more intense, and more well-attended games. We don't officiate for the money. We officiate for the personal challenge of getting our game on, taking the floor, nailing the calls, managing the personalities, solving the crises, performing under pressure, and just generally excelling at every aspect of what we do. And then we want to go out the next night and tackle an even bigger challenge.

Fact: That means officials must "move up" from where they are currently to the games they want to be working.

Now I don't hear any moral outrage being unloaded on officials who say they're working hard to "move up" from junior varsity to varsity. So why should any of us feel ill disposed toward an official who wants to move up from working girls' games to boys' games?

Most women officials I know are frequently overheard complaining about how they're not getting more boys varsity games. Why? Because they want to move up as much as the men do. Is anyone here willing to unload their moral outrage on these officials too? Or is it okay to think in those terms if your a woman?

[SonikBoom]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Fact: At every level, freshman, sophmore, junior varisity, and varsity, the girls' games are slower, less intense, and more sparsely attended than the boys'.

I havnt read the whole thread, but I think this is the "fackt"" that not evryone things isa "fackt".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SonikBoom

I havnt read the whole thread, but I think this is the "fackt"" that not evryone things isa "fackt".

That's easy for you to say.....

[SonikBoom]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's easy for you to say.....

Looks to me like your jokes are more important than your serious things? You make fun of my typing but dont address the issue. Is there universale agrement that boys games are better tahn girls games? That they are harder to ref? im just wondring if thats reilly a fact?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rita C

It isn't a matter of individual preference. It's the wholesale attitude of the organization that we have a problem with.

The wholesale attitude you speak of is a direct result of individual preferences. It's basic economics, the more desirable an assignment is, the more difficult it is to get, and therefore it becomes a de facto sign of "moving up" to get those assignments.

There was no top-down decision to make the boys games higher level assignments than the girls games (except in those few areas that assign three officials for boys games and two for girls games.)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SonikBoom

I havnt read the whole thread, but I think this is the "fackt"" that not evryone things isa "fackt".

I'd challenge you to find me a school (at any level) where the gym is noisier during a girls game than during a boys game. (Intensity level and attendance). You might be able to find a handful of exceptions across the country (most would be colleges like the University of Tennessee.)

I'd challenge you to find me a single school where the girls team is faster and stronger than the boys team. I'd challenge you to find a school where the girls team is as fast or as strong as the boys team.

I'd challenge you to find me more than a half-dozen schools nationwide where the coach of the girls team is under more pressure than the coach of the boys team.

BITS' facts are hard to dispute. Does that make the boys game intrisically better? No. Are they more desirable for top tier officials? Definitely. JRut isn't the only official who would rather give up officiating than work a steady diet of girls' ball.

That said, I imagine a lot of female officials want to do boys varsity simply because of the status it implies in a given association. In the association I was in the past two years, the women seemed to do an equal number of boys and girls games. Then again, boys games weren't the end-all in that association (also in Colorado, but a different part of the state from Ch1town). In that group, the big deal is staying "in town" as opposed to driving to a small school game out of town. From what I saw, all the top officials worked both boys and girls games, relatively equally.

Similar to Ch1town's experience, but slightly deviated, the way to get on the assignor's good side was to be willing to drive to games out of town (as far away as two hours).

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'd challenge you to find me a school (at any level) where the gym is noisier during a girls game than during a boys game. (Intensity level and attendance). You might be able to find a handful of exceptions across the country (most would be colleges like the University of Tennessee.)

I'd challenge you to find me a single school where the girls team is faster and stronger than the boys team. I'd challenge you to find a school where the girls team is as fast or as strong as the boys team.

I'd challenge you to find me more than a half-dozen schools nationwide where the coach of the girls team is under more pressure than the coach of the boys team.

BITS' facts are hard to dispute. Does that make the boys game intrisically better? No. Are they more desirable for top tier officials? Definitely. JRut isn't the only official who would rather give up officiating than work a steady diet of girls' ball.

That said, I imagine a lot of female officials want to do boys varsity simply because of the status it implies in a given association. In the association I was in the past two years, the women seemed to do an equal number of boys and girls games. Then again, boys games weren't the end-all in that association (also in Colorado, but a different part of the state from Ch1town). In that group, the big deal is staying "in town" as opposed to driving to a small school game out of town. From what I saw, all the top officials worked both boys and girls games, relatively equally.

Similar to Ch1town's experience, but slightly deviated, the way to get on the assignor's good side was to be willing to drive to games out of town (as far away as two hours).

Snags............ there are some pretty intense, SRO, decibel breaking, girl's tournament games here in Chicagoland. It's routine during the season also for big games. Things being equal, the boys game will be on a larger scale but there are a good number of programs in Illinois where girl's basketball is just fine.

I was at a boys sectional the other night and the gym was not even half filled, conversely a few weeks ago a sectional girls game was sold out.

I do however understand your point.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I guess some people haven't figured out that you can hate women's basketball without hating women. They are not one and the same.

Wait. Stop the presses. Has Drudge gotten this story yet?? I'm sure there wil be a presidential press conference in the morning to address this new development!!

btw good post.

[Rita C]

"Just because it's always been done that way....." is the subtle discrimination of which I speak. No one can say it isn't there.

If one doesn't like girls' basketball, that's alright, no problem. Do boys basketball.

If one doesn't like boys' basketball, that's alright, no problem. Do girls basketball.

But I do think it's unhealthy thinking in an organization to say that one has to "move up" from doing girls' basketball.

It isn't a matter of individual preference. It's the wholesale attitude of the organization that we have a problem with.

Rita

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rita C

"Just because it's always been done that way....." is the subtle discrimination of which I speak. No one can say it isn't there.

If one doesn't like girls' basketball, that's alright, no problem. Do boys basketball.

If one doesn't like boys' basketball, that's alright, no problem. Do girls basketball.

But I do think it's unhealthy thinking in an organization to say that one has to "move up" from doing girls' basketball.

It isn't a matter of individual preference. It's the wholesale attitude of the organization that we have a problem with.

Rita

When a strong majority in any field have a similar order of preferences, that establishes a defacto order of moving up. The more people that desire a given assignment relateive to the available opportunities (of anything, not just basketball) the higher the level. It's all based on preferences, not any absolute or intrinsic value. A level that anyone can get is at the bottom. A level that only a select few achive is at the top. Is it easier to get a girls varsity game than a boys varsity game? Is it easier to get a freshman game than a varsity game? You tell me.

[tomegun]

I don't think there is anything anyone can say to win this argument. When someone isn't as experienced, they do girl's varsity before boy's varsity. When someone can't move like they used to, they do girl's varsity after doing boy's varsity (previously). You can call it what you want and argue all day, I don't think any official on this board can really change the way things are.

All this is true unless you live in a ________ state where you have to do double ___________ headers. In that case you basically do the same amount. Being in the military and moving around frequently is the worst thing that has happened to me as an official. Putting that into perspective, I guess I'm pretty blessed overall.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rita C

It isn't a matter of individual preference. It's the wholesale attitude of the organization that we have a problem with.

Rita

So I am supposed to like something because you like it. When I started officiating, I was not even thinking of working any girl's basketball at all. I wanted to be in the NBA, which later I decided would not be for me. There was no WNBA when I started and you could hardly find a D1 Women's game on TV. My focus was only Boy's or Men's basketball until I was not given a chance to work those games. You are not going to change my feelings because you have a problem with what I prefer doing. It is not going to happen. If you want that to change, get more women that never played any sports to officiate games. Then you will not have to worry about who officiates the girls game or not. I would never hinder any female from officiating anything they are qualified to do. But you cannot tell me that every male that grew up playing is thinking women's basketball is the way to go.

Peace