1st year....table issue

[isualum12]

Working a 8th grade girls game Team A is losing by 15 with 2 minutes left. The gym set up is court with brick walls 3 feet out from the court all the way around. Bleachers are in the upper deck 10 feet up. Score table is all the way up in the stands. I explain this only because it was a slight factor in this issue.

Team A gets fouled in the back court with a hand check. I call it and look up to report it. As I am reporting it the guy running the clock gives me a signal of 10 with his hands. I look up at the board and notice it showed 9 fouls (I had noticed during the last timeout also that it showed 9 fouls for both teams and mentioned to my partner next foul is double). I grab the ball run down to the other end and set up for the double bonus shots. I say to the girls "double bonus we are shooting two" and toss her the ball. She misses the first shot and every stands still waiting for the second shot. The scoretable hits the horn. I walk over that direction and look up at them confused and they say it was actually the 9th foul and it is 1and1. The clock guy has the deer in the head lights look. I turn to my partner and explain....We went off the pos. arrow which gave the ball to team B. It really didn't have a big impact on the game other then making ME look foolish.

After the game the clock guy admitted he must have screwed up and put an extra foul up on the board earlier and the clock didn't match the book. The score keeper was correct it was the 9th foul.

This frustrated me to no end the rest of the night.....How do I prevent this from happening???? Or I am I really at the mercy of Joe Blow at the table on this...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by isualum12

This frustrated me to no end the rest of the night.....How do I prevent this from happening???? Or I am I really at the mercy of Joe Blow at the table on this...

After every quarter I ask the scorer and timer if the score and fouls match up. That can help narrow these things down, as you're checking all the time. If the game is hotly contested, and you're nearing the middle/end of the 4th, during a TO, walk to the table and remind them that their accuracy now will prevent a bad ending in case of a screw-up.

Originally Posted by isualum12

As I am reporting it the guy running the clock gives me a signal of 10 with his hands. I look up at the board and notice it showed 9 fouls (I had noticed during the last timeout also that it showed 9 fouls for both teams and mentioned to my partner next foul is double). I grab the ball run down to the other end and set up for the double bonus shots. I say to the girls "double bonus we are shooting two" and toss her the ball.

How do I prevent this from happening???? Or I am I really at the mercy of Joe Blow at the table on this...

When administering FTs I don't say 2 until I see 10 on the board for common fouls. It sounded like you had more than enough info to decide there was a descrepency before the FT being shot.

ie:
during the timeout it showed 9
clock guy says 10
Per 2-10-11 I need that info from the scorer not the timer
board shows 9 before you administered

In all honesty, being on top of your game especially when you have definitive info would have prevented this error from happening.

[Dan_ref]

Keep the foul count in your head and you'll never be at the mercy of the table.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Keep the foul count in your head and you'll never be at the mercy of the table.

Also, make sure you keep track of the individual fouls, so you never foul out the star player.

A good table crew won't make us look any better, but a bad table will definitely make us look bad. The only thing you can do is to keep verifying information, so it is less likely that a problem will show up.

isualum12, it looked like you took the word of the clock operator on his signal alone, then hustled down to administer FT's. I would've taken the extra few seconds to ask the scorekeeper, "Is that the 10th foul?" That will give them the opportunity to re-count, and give you the yes or no. Then if they say no, the clock and book can work it out before you have a 2-10 situation.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by isualum12

Working a 8th grade girls game Team A is losing by 15 with 2 minutes left. The gym set up is court with brick walls 3 feet out from the court all the way around. Bleachers are in the upper deck 10 feet up. Score table is all the way up in the stands. I explain this only because it was a slight factor in this issue.

Team A gets fouled in the back court with a hand check. I call it and look up to report it. As I am reporting it the guy running the clock gives me a signal of 10 with his hands. I look up at the board and notice it showed 9 fouls (I had noticed during the last timeout also that it showed 9 fouls for both teams and mentioned to my partner next foul is double). I grab the ball run down to the other end and set up for the double bonus shots. I say to the girls "double bonus we are shooting two" and toss her the ball. She misses the first shot and every stands still waiting for the second shot. The scoretable hits the horn. I walk over that direction and look up at them confused and they say it was actually the 9th foul and it is 1and1. The clock guy has the deer in the head lights look. I turn to my partner and explain....We went off the pos. arrow which gave the ball to team B. It really didn't have a big impact on the game other then making ME look foolish.

After the game the clock guy admitted he must have screwed up and put an extra foul up on the board earlier and the clock didn't match the book. The score keeper was correct it was the 9th foul.

This frustrated me to no end the rest of the night.....How do I prevent this from happening???? Or I am I really at the mercy of Joe Blow at the table on this...

All good suggestions. I've found that the level of game you are doing also dictates what kind of table personnel will might have. Next time it might not be a foul count issue, it will be something else. You'll have to be a little more aware of those type of things, than maybe you would for a higher level contest.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by isualum12

How do I prevent this from happening???? Or I am I really at the mercy of Joe Blow at the table on this...

Prevent it??? You can't. You can reduce the probability by checking with the table but unless you're going to carry a book with you on the floor and note the fouls when you call them, you'll never prevent it. The table has a job to do and you can help them stay in sync. But sometimes, they just mess up.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

When administering FTs I don't say 2 until I see 10 on the board for common fouls. It sounded like you had more than enough info to decide there was a descrepency before the FT being shot.

ie:
during the timeout it showed 9
clock guy says 10
Per 2-10-11 I need that info from the scorer not the timer
board shows 9 before you administered

In all honesty, being on top of your game especially when you have definitive info would have prevented this error from happening.

He said it showed 9-9 BEFORE they called the foul. The guy responsible for making the board read 10-9 gave them the ten signal. All in all I think you are being a little harsh.

Next time you see 6 or 9 before you call one take a look to see it go to 7 or 10. If it doesn't find out why before you administer the FTs.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by isualum12

Working a 8th grade girls game Team A is losing by 15 with 2 minutes left. The gym set up is court with brick walls 3 feet out from the court all the way around. Bleachers are in the upper deck 10 feet up. Score table is all the way up in the stands. I explain this only because it was a slight factor in this issue.

I have worked at a college where their home court is an old high school building with a second floor gym just like you described.

I agree with M&M guy, and as always, try to make sure you have eye contact with the scorer when reporting fouls so they can acknowledge and give you the relevant information, such as 1&1, double bonus, 5 fouls, etc.

I go crazy when officials report fouls at the lower (MS/CYO) levels and flash the number so quickly and leave the reporting area before I, as official scorer, can react.

Probably will never keep the situatons in your OP from happening, but you can try to use proactiveness and rpeventative officiating to keep these snags to a minimum.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

He said it showed 9-9 BEFORE they called the foul.

You're absolutely correct. But if you read more carefully you would've seen...
As I am reporting it the guy running the clock gives me a signal of 10 with his hands. I look up at the board and notice it showed 9 fouls
So although it showed 9-9 BEFORE evidently it showed 9-9 after too

The guy responsible for making the board read 10-9 gave them the ten signal.

Once again, per 2-10-11 I'm not concerned with what the timer says, the scorer has that responsibility.

All in all I think you are being a little harsh.

Isn't that what this place is all about?? Tough love j/k
Seriously though he asked a question & I was just answering in my opinion

Next time you see 6 or 9 before you call one take a look to see it go to 7 or 10. If it doesn't find out why before you administer the FTs.

Didn't I already say that in my initial response