unreported subs

[cloverdale]

bjv...had a complete 5 man sub-in...exchange is made then table informs no one reports to home book...what ya got...5 t's or just 1?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by cloverdale

bjv...had a complete 5 man sub-in...exchange is made then table informs no one reports to home book...what ya got...5 t's or just 1?

How'd they get on the court without being beckoned? Was it during a time out?
When was it discovered, before or after the ball was live?

[cloverdale]

yes it was t.o. ... and it was dead ball...we had not put ball in play

[BoomerSooner]

Don't have books, but I'm pretty sure this is an individually based T, so you would have 5 T's. Each player charged with 1 foul toward their 5 for DQ and 5 added to the Team foul count. I would try to aviod this kind of situation though.

[cloverdale]

absolutly would not want this situation...but...is it our responsibility to make sure every kid properly reports in ? I say it isnt...I also believe it is 5 t's not 1.

[BoomerSooner]

No it certainly isn't our responsibility, but I'm sure someone will fire off some preventative officiating tips to prevent it.

[just another ref]

I suppose, by rule, it would be a technical foul for each substitute who failed to report, unless it falls under that umbrella of " similar multiple infractions, one technical" thingy. This is found in 10.4.1 in reference to a bench technical, and I would not think it would apply here. Some one else will interject, I'm sure. Around here, the fact is that subs during a time out pretty much report or don't report, whatever. I've never seen or heard of this call in a varsity game, let alone a jv.

[Camron Rust]

If, when coming out of a timeout, there are players on the floor that haven't properly checked in, send them back to the bench and require that the previous players remain. No T. The only thing I could imagine a T for is if you felt the action was an intentional effort to decieve the other team.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If, when coming out of a timeout, there are players on the floor that haven't properly checked in, send them back to the bench and require that the previous players remain. No T. The only thing I could imagine a T for is if you felt the action was an intentional effort to decieve the other team.

Works for me.

[ma_ref]

By rule, I'd say 5 T's...but if you call this, then you must have a serious axe to grind with the coach from a previous run-in or something. 10 shots plus the ball to the other team. Whoa!

Also, aren't these considered bench T's? If so, that means the coach gets 5 indirects and is ejected as well!

I'd just send them back to the table, tell them to check with the scorer, and then wave them in. If it's after the 1st warning horn coming out of a TO, then if I wanted to be a stickler about it, I suppose worst case I'd make the original 5 come back on the court and the new 5 would have to wait for the next whistle. But I'd avoid 5 T's like the plague.

[mick]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

By rule, I'd say 5 T's...but if you call this, then you must have a serious axe to grind with the coach from a previous run-in or something. 10 shots plus the ball to the other team. Whoa!

Also, aren't these considered bench T's? If so, that means the coach gets 5 indirects and is ejected as well!

I'd just send them back to the table, tell them to check with the scorer, and then wave them in. If it's after the 1st warning horn coming out of a TO, then if I wanted to be a stickler about it, I suppose worst case I'd make the original 5 come back on the court and the new 5 would have to wait for the next whistle. But I'd avoid 5 T's like the plague.

Before the ball is live -> send them back to report
After the ball is live -> the subs are players 3-3-3

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I got this called once in my coaching days. With a minute or two left in the first quarter, the opponents subbed in five new players. A "pressing team", five quick kids to come off the bench and play for a short period, hopefully changing the pace of the game. Quarter ends, and I decide if this kids are staying in, I want to press them. So I tell my AC to watch the table for subs during the quarter timeout. Nobody reports. The five starters walk back on the floor. As the R is getting ready to hand the ball off to start the half, I go to the table and tell them to hit the horn. I'm calling for him to come over and he does. I tell him none of the five on the floor reported. He checks with the home scorer who agrees. He calls the five Ts, but says they are administrative Ts, so they are one shot each. I was 95% sure he was wrong, but I wasn't going to argue my way out of the five FTs he was giving us.

We hit three of five and went on to win by about eight points.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

By rule, I'd say 5 T's...but if you call this, then you must have a serious axe to grind with the coach from a previous run-in or something. 10 shots plus the ball to the other team. Whoa!

Also, aren't these considered bench T's? If so, that means the coach gets 5 indirects and is ejected as well!

No, it is a player T for entering the game without reporting.

At just about every home CYO game I did, the visitors would always have their players at the far end of the table and wonder why we wouldn't blow the horn for them (gee, I have an X in front of me and they never reported to me they were checking in). But unless a kid runs off the bench onto the court, this usually isn't a big deal at this level.

i did have a college game once though where the visiting coach insisted a player did not have to notify the table crew if they wanted to check in.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by cloverdale

bjv...had a complete 5 man sub-in...exchange is made then table informs no one reports to home book...what ya got...5 t's or just 1?

Why does a sub have to report to the "home book"? I just thought they had to check in with the official scorer.

[Scrapper1]

I once witnessed a mass substitution like this during a live ball. This was a girls' game and the team's head coach had never coached basketball before. She was a volleyball coach who got handed the job because there was nobody else to do it.

So play is going on and she wants to make some substitutions. She has 3 or 4 girls from the bench stand up, pushes them onto the floor, makes the traveling signal (it's the substitution signal in volleyball) and yells "SUBS!"

It was absolutely hysterical. I'm not certain what the refs did about it, but I think they just sent everybody back to the table and resumed the game, then had them come in at the next whistle.