Intentional Lane Violations --- Good coaching?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

Strategy or no, call the intentional foul. It's situations like this where kids really get hurt, and parents/coaches of the team being fouled get mad at you for allowing it. And they'd be right.

As BITS said, this needs to be an intentional technical foul for dead-ball contact. (I suppose it could also be a flagrant T.)

[sj]

I can see eveybody's points. One thing I'll expand on a bit is that the time remaining was such that if I had blown a whistle the horn would have been blowing at the same time as I was still blowing and the clock would certainly have gone to zero.

So is there a different dynamic if there are 3 or so seconds left versus one second when the ball goes in?.....Ball goes in...coach turns and screams ( and I do mean screams to call a foul and wasn't asking for time out.)...I turn to look....I'm seeing a push (about a 4 on a scale of 1 to 10) in my peripheral vision but honestly got distracted by the coach screaming,,,horn blows. The whole episode I'm describing takes place in about one second. Certainly no more.

As for creating an atmosphere where it's allowing for the potential for very bad things to happen. I guess my contention is that there wasn't enough time left for bad things to happen. But if there is enough time remaining then no doubt it's a good point.

Please don't take any of this as being stubborn or argumentative, I'm trying to learn and figure it out. Thanks.

[sj]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

Why'd A use their last timeout before the 3? He should've saved it for after the 3 went in.

Your guess is as good as mine but maybe he had this in mind. That being the idea of fouling during the dead ball as his only shot at winning and wanted to set it up. I just had never run across it before.

[sj]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Marist at Fairfield last night, Men's. Double OT, Fairfield shooting 2nd of 2 shots with 0.9 left, up by 1.

Marist calls TO preceding the 2nd FT. They come out of the TO, and have a player walk into the lane as the Fairfield shooter attempts his FT (which he misses on purpose). Lane violation occurs.

Same thing happens again. And again.

Finally, on the 4th attempt, the Fairfield player accidently made the free throw. Marist then had an opportunity to throw the ball up court and score to tie or win the game.

So, is there anything a ref can do to stop this seemingly unsportsmenlike behavior?

I don't think there is a darn thing... but I'll leave it to the experts. Has anyone seen this done before???

Here's another one a ref related to me about pulling one at the end of the game.

Team B is down by one with 4 seconds left. B's arrow. B has fouled and A1 is shooting a 1 and 1. B calls a time out and sets it up..... When B comes out of their huddle, B1 goes to the second lane space hoping A2 won't notice and will go to the first spot...which he does. The administrating official doesn't know it and bounces the ball to A1. B1 then draws the attention of the official by saying that "that guy shouldn't be there." Official calls the double violation and gives B the ball based on the arrow. They throw it in and go down and score and win and the game is over.

Just as a side note... B1 is today a Division 1 official.

[Rizzo21]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

My points exactly.


I agree that's not the reason to call it. You never call a foul because you *expect* an injury to occur, nor are we directly responsible for the actions of the players on the court. My point was that once this person decided not to call it, they have, in fact, potentially put a team in harms way and it was totally avoidable. Imagine what the players on the team trying to foul are thinking: "Hmmm...I just tried to foul the kid, but the ref didn't call anything...maybe I didn't get him enough?" So next time they try to foul again, only this time they do it harder because it didn't get the ref's attention the 1st time. I'm no lawyer, but negligence is not something I'm willing to spend a small fortune to defend myself against. And in today's litigious society, don't think this wouldn't happen.

True, that the "whistle isn't going to heal an injury", but it could very well prevent one. And by consciously ignoring an intentional foul situation, this particular official is creating an atmosphere where they're allowing the potential for very bad things to happen.

Had this scenario earlier this year when Team A was up by about 5 with less than a minute to go and did a VERY good job of "keep away" with their passes. Team B could not catch any of the players for their "foul". Finally A1 caught the ball and just stood there but B1 came in and shoved him into the stands with 1.4 seconds left. Bad scene that luckily didn't escalate (fortunately, A1 was very calm and not hurt). The call was Flagrant Personal on B1 by one of my partners. He's out for the remaining 1.4 seconds and the next game as well. Post-game we lamented the fact that we couldn't get a touch foul earlier but there was NOTHING to get. Things just happen.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by sj

Here's another one a ref related to me about pulling one at the end of the game.

Team B is down by one with 4 seconds left. B's arrow. B has fouled and A1 is shooting a 1 and 1. B calls a time out and sets it up..... When B comes out of their huddle, B1 goes to the second lane space hoping A2 won't notice and will go to the first spot...which he does. The administrating official doesn't know it and bounces the ball to A1. B1 then draws the attention of the official by saying that "that guy shouldn't be there." Official calls the double violation and gives B the ball based on the arrow. They throw it in and go down and score and win and the game is over.

Just as a side note... B1 is today a Division 1 official.

Must be Jon Diebler. He committed the violation and then called it. It was one of his dual role games.