Unanswered from 1st year

[ca_rumperee]

Have made it through the season without getting this question answered.

Team A brings ball down, and has a couple of players criss cross under the basket. Player A1 runs out of room and just runs out-of-bounds past the key.

Not forced out by the defense, not gaining an advantage, just not cognizant of the rule.

Do you make this call?

How about as you go down in age groups... say 7th grade or 5th grade.

Do you make this call?

[rainmaker]

If they gain an advantage, call it, even if they are "not cognizant of the rule". If it's just a play that didn't work, it's nothing the first time. If it happens again. say something. Depending on how far out of bounds we're talking here. One foot takes a couple steps oob, nada. Both feet out for a couple of steps, say something.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If they gain an advantage, call it, even if they are "not cognizant of the rule". If it's just a play that didn't work, it's nothing the first time. If it happens again. say something. Depending on how far out of bounds we're talking here. One foot takes a couple steps oob, nada. Both feet out for a couple of steps, say something.

Concur ....and the younger they are the more lenient I will be.....at the 5th grade level you still have serious problems with fouls, 3-seconds, walk, carry, double dribble, etc....let alone trying to enforce this everyone time someone steps out of bounds. JMO>

[Jim Henry]

I do several games each year grades 5 -8 and try to enforce all rules according to the book. At the lower grades my partner and I try to use some leniency and common sense, but we also try to teach (not coach, but teach.)

When a player steps out of bounds and gains an advantage, I make the call, and tell the player it is not allowed. On a few occasions I have seen a player go OOB with one foot and come back in but s/he is not in the play and never touches the ball. I’ve ignored it.

As stated, grade school games are long enough with the dozens of held balls and if we call everything, the game will last two hours. Most coaches agree with this philosophy…but still complain when we don’t make the calls. When the coach says “you missed it”. My answer is, “Coach I didn’t miss it; I ignored it!”

At the junior high level, I don’t show the leniency. By this time they should know the rules and they need to know they can’t get away with going OOB.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

Have made it through the season without getting this question answered.

Team A brings ball down, and has a couple of players criss cross under the basket. Player A1 runs out of room and just runs out-of-bounds past the key.

Not forced out by the defense, not gaining an advantage, just not cognizant of the rule.

Do you make this call?

How about as you go down in age groups... say 7th grade or 5th grade.

Do you make this call?

I call it every time at every age level. The player has gained an unfair advantage BY DEFINITION by using more than the allotted space. That's a simple call, which the NFHS has directed us to make in a recent POE.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I call it every time at every age level. The player has gained an unfair advantage BY DEFINITION by using more than the allotted space. That's a simple call, which the NFHS has directed us to make in a recent POE.

I think all of these posts point out why I'm still unsure.
Nevada takes the straightforward approach. Jim Henry the practical approach.
I have yet to call this violation, but I'm poised for my first time!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I call it every time at every age level. The player has gained an unfair advantage BY DEFINITION by using more than the allotted space. That's a simple call, which the NFHS has directed us to make in a recent POE.

OOO

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

I think all of these posts point out why I'm still unsure.

That will be true throughout your career on any "philosophical" questions, especially when they are combined with the different geographic areas and the inadequacy of the written word.

Do what's done in your area.

[Tim C]

I officiated basketball for 25 years including 17 at the major college level.

I have watched basketball at the high school and college level for over 50 years.

I have NEVER seen this called nor would I EVER expect to see it called.

OOO

Regards,

[BEAREF]

Saturday I worked an 8th grade boys tournament. One team was running a flex offense setting lots of screens on the low block. More than once did an offensive player step out of bounds while going around either the screener or the defender. I called the violation just one time and only when the player immediately caught a pass in the paint for an easy score. The coach of the violating team said right away.."good call stripes". My philosophy is to pass on the call unless the player/team gains an IMMEDIATE advantage as was the case on Saturday.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Saturday I worked an 8th grade boys tournament. One team was running a flex offense setting lots of screens on the low block. More than once did an offensive player step out of bounds while going around either the screener or the defender. I called the violation just one time and only when the player immediately caught a pass in the paint for an easy score. The coach of the violating team said right away.."good call stripes". My philosophy is to pass on the call unless the player/team gains an IMMEDIATE advantage as was the case on Saturday.

I like this approach.

The only time that I've said anything to players is when they make no attempt whatsoever to stay inbounds when they clearly had room to do so, or if they're perputual violators of the rule. When I mention the requirement, I do so in a way of "Hey - did you know...". They often didn't know that rule or weren't aware of what they were doing. I consider it preventative.

[Jim Henry]

I guess my question to Tim C is, "Have you ever seen a player run OOB, then come back in-bounds and then receive a pass?" I have twice in 7 years and called the violation.

Unless I miss Tim's point, and not making the call if the player steps/runs OOB and gains no advantage doing so.

[Tim C]

I just tried to answer the OP.

During my college career we crossed over after filling lanes so I think I understood what was asked.

Again, I have never seen it called and would not expect to see it called in games played by shaving aged players.

When I officiated it was explained quite clearly that the "leaving the court" rule was written so a player could not leave the court and "hide out" so that he could cherry pick.

Regards,

[Grail]

Nevada may be right, but only if he is also calling everything else "exactly" by the book. I'm not on the offensive, but do you call 3 seconds immediately when you reach the 3 count, or do you talk to the players and get them to clear the lane. If a player starting up court, completely unguarded is a little slow to release the ball for his dribble, do you call the travel?

In both of those cases, I'm not blowing the whistle. I may get to the 3 second call, and certainly with defense on the dribbler (or trying to be a dribbler) I make the call. But as described above, a quick whistle will also lead me to a quick demotion. It may be different in Nevada's neck of the woods, but where I live, those kinds of calls don't get called unless there is clear advantage.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

I think all of these posts point out why I'm still unsure.
Nevada takes the straightforward approach. Jim Henry the practical approach.
I have yet to call this violation, but I'm poised for my first time!

You will never get agreement on things like this. Even if you change this to HS you will still have all kinds of views. As Bob J said, call what is likely for your area. There really is not a right or wrong answer here.

Peace