Was my partner too quick on the trigger?

[Mark Padgett]

OK - maybe I should have rephrased that. Last night, boys 8th grade A competitive game. Not much coming from the benches at all. Middle of Q3, home team ahead by 7 and there's a timeout. My partner is at the table reporting it and I'm going over with the ball to the throw in spot. Suddenly, he turns to me and says that there's a "bench technical" on white and we'll come out of the TO with two shots and the ball. I start to walk towards him to ask what happened but he tells me he'll tell me later. Meanwhile, the home HC has his arms up and is saying "What was that for? Can I please get an explanation?"

We shoot the T and continue the game. After the quarter, he tells me what happened. When he went to report the TO, the HC said to him, "You're missing a lot of calls out there." My partner turned and said, "What did you say?". The AC then said, "He said you're missing a lot of calls out there." WHACK! That was it. He called a T on the AC.

As I said, neither bench had been a problem prior to that point. Do you think a T was justified? Upon my inquiry, my partner said their tone wasn't particularly sarcastic or nasty but pretty straight forward.

I should mention that this guy is in his second year of officiating, if that makes any difference.

As you guys know, I'm usually not one to complain about giving out technicals, but I don't think even I would have done it then. I think a warning would have been sufficient. Oh yeah, the fun part was that I informed the HC he was seat belted. That went over really well.

[truerookie]

I don't know Mark, this could have been a situation where both coaches wanted to see how far they can go with this fairly new official.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I don't know Mark, this could have been a situation where both coaches wanted to see how far they can go with this fairly new official.

I see your point but these are "independent" teams and really have no idea beforehand how much experience each official has, unless they've seen him or her before. They all pretty much know me and some others as having been around a long time but that's really the exception, not the rule. Plus - there really wasn't any indication due to his performance up to that point in the game.

Oh yeah, he's about 40, so it wasn't as if he was a kid, either.

[deecee]

Could have been lack of experience. I think you giving him your input would have helped him. However in his defense the lower the level the less amount of @#$@# I want to, or will, take. But sounds like I would have responded to the coach with a simple "Ill look harder to see if I can find them."

Seriously, I would have warned the coach too.

[emmett921]

I'm a first year official and gave out my first Technical tonight in a Freshman boys game, competetive prep-school rivals. The visiting coach wanted a call for a push off during a loose ball. As the play was happening he called out "Come on you didn't see that.", then coming back by him the other way after a turnover about 8 seconds later I heard "You suck.", so I called a T. At the half he came up and asked about the T, I told him saying "You suck" to an official is pretty clear. At that point he said he had said "You saw it" and not "You suck". He may have said that, based on the fact that he approached me at the half to ask about it, but it didn't sound like it during the action. Should I have asked for an explanation at the time, given him a warning or what?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by emmett921

I'm a first year official and gave out my first Technical tonight in a Freshman boys game, competetive prep-school rivals. The visiting coach wanted a call for a push off during a loose ball. As the play was happening he called out "Come on you didn't see that.", then coming back by him the other way after a turnover about 8 seconds later I heard "You suck.", so I called a T. At the half he came up and asked about the T, I told him saying "You suck" to an official is pretty clear. At that point he said he had said "You saw it" and not "You suck". He may have said that, based on the fact that he approached me at the half to ask about it, but it didn't sound like it during the action. Should I have asked for an explanation at the time, given him a warning or what?

If you let every coach explain the meaning of what he said or what you think you heard....it could make for long games. If you believe you heard it, be sure, and do what you feel is right. It's just another call - and you can't take em back. With experience you'll do better and feel more confident.

[williebfree]

I am fairly thick-skinned and have years of experience dealing with (deescalating) coaches.

It appears that Mark's partner was/is still defining his role as an official and felt uncomfortable (challenged) by the HC and AC. Hopefully with time, this partner will develop a comfort zone with the authority and responsibility that is inherent with the position.

I understand some coaches are a destined for a train-wreck, despite proactive efforts to redirect them. To paraphrase an old proverb.... "You can appease some of the coaches all the time and all the coaches some of the time, but rarely can you appease all the coaches all the time." Based on the information provided by Mark, this was not a case where I would T the AC.


emmett8921

The variables you offer, justify a T. That coach challenged your judgement initially, but IMO he crosses the line when he gets personal "You Suck!"... His follow-up questioning was not necessary and should be considered a challenge of your integrity and resolve to enforce the rules.

Assuming you and your partner are positioned on the far side of the court (Away from the table and bench areas)....

The fact that the coach came to (at) you at half time demonstrates he would not "move on" with the game and wanted to once again posture "his" control. I would politely suggest he should focus on his players and get them ready for the 2nd half. If the coach insisted on arguing HIS case, I would offer him a free pass from the gym, via a 2nd T.

[Teigan]

I'm not a big fan of Assistant Coaches, and I'd probably be okay with that call. They don't need to work the officials, if the head coach wants to thats another issue in its entirety.

I can think back last year when I went to a provincial tournament, and all the Assistant Coach did was stand up and wave his arms...I told him he wasn't allowed to stand, and I GOT RAKED!!!!!!!!!

So, I'm okay with that technical.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by emmett921

I'm a first year official and gave out my first Technical tonight in a Freshman boys game, competetive prep-school rivals. The visiting coach wanted a call for a push off during a loose ball. As the play was happening he called out "Come on you didn't see that.", then coming back by him the other way after a turnover about 8 seconds later I heard "You suck.", so I called a T. At the half he came up and asked about the T, I told him saying "You suck" to an official is pretty clear. At that point he said he had said "You saw it" and not "You suck". He may have said that, based on the fact that he approached me at the half to ask about it, but it didn't sound like it during the action. Should I have asked for an explanation at the time, given him a warning or what?

Do you know how to tell when a coach is trying to work you? His lips are moving.

Odds are really, really good that what you heard is exactly what he said. After that, he's in "damage control" mode. Don't let him back on your good side unless he brings flowers and candy

Sounds like a righteous T to me.

[chartrusepengui]

Similar sit - 8th girls game a blowout in first 2 minutes. Losing coach began chattering and complaining on every call in 2nd half. When positioned over there I told him he needed to dial it back a little. A little later he got louder and I gave the stop sign. After a particular call I was trail and he started in on partners call. I told him he should be asking my partner his questions - but for now call was made and he needed to sit down so we could continue game. (he'd down by 50) He started talking again as I am handing player ball. I said, " were finished now" He in a loud voice exclaimed "I don't think I am" and turned, tooted the whistle and said "yes you are" WHACK

he had it coming - no worries

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

OK - maybe I should have rephrased that. Last night, boys 8th grade A competitive game. Not much coming from the benches at all. Middle of Q3, home team ahead by 7 and there's a timeout. My partner is at the table reporting it and I'm going over with the ball to the throw in spot. Suddenly, he turns to me and says that there's a "bench technical" on white and we'll come out of the TO with two shots and the ball. I start to walk towards him to ask what happened but he tells me he'll tell me later. Meanwhile, the home HC has his arms up and is saying "What was that for? Can I please get an explanation?"

We shoot the T and continue the game. After the quarter, he tells me what happened. When he went to report the TO, the HC said to him, "You're missing a lot of calls out there." My partner turned and said, "What did you say?". The AC then said, "He said you're missing a lot of calls out there." WHACK! That was it. He called a T on the AC.

As I said, neither bench had been a problem prior to that point. Do you think a T was justified? Upon my inquiry, my partner said their tone wasn't particularly sarcastic or nasty but pretty straight forward.

I should mention that this guy is in his second year of officiating, if that makes any difference.

As you guys know, I'm usually not one to complain about giving out technicals, but I don't think even I would have done it then. I think a warning would have been sufficient. Oh yeah, the fun part was that I informed the HC he was seat belted. That went over really well.

The 'T' may or may not have been warranted, but I rather work with a 2nd year official who has the guts to call a 'T'. He/She can learn to dial it back if needed; but at least you know he/she has it in them to take care of business when the situation arises.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The 'T' may or may not have been warranted, but I rather work with a 2nd year official who has the guts to call a 'T'. He/She can learn to dial it back if needed; but at least you know he/she has it in them to take care of business when the situation arises.

Hey thats me. I learned about taking care of bidness right here. In the real world I don't see alot of taking care of bidness.

So I read, I experimented,I'm learning. Did and do I still give out quick T's ?

yep. But it's all good cause I know when I have jumped too quick. But only 1 quick and undeserving T this.

[stosh]

Originally Posted by emmett921

I'm a first year official and gave out my first Technical tonight in a Freshman boys game, competetive prep-school rivals. The visiting coach wanted a call for a push off during a loose ball. As the play was happening he called out "Come on you didn't see that.", then coming back by him the other way after a turnover about 8 seconds later I heard "You suck.", so I called a T. At the half he came up and asked about the T, I told him saying "You suck" to an official is pretty clear. At that point he said he had said "You saw it" and not "You suck". He may have said that, based on the fact that he approached me at the half to ask about it, but it didn't sound like it during the action. Should I have asked for an explanation at the time, given him a warning or what?

If he said "you suck" it's automatic, and he knows that.

If he said "You saw it", depending on tone, he might have earned one anyway.

It doesn't really matter what he said, it what you hear that matters. If he wasn't questioning your judgement in the first place none of it would have happened. It's only a foul call and it's part of the game; it's not the end of the world to get one "wrong" once in a while.

[Bearfanmike20]

I'm a first year guy. I've done about 60 games.

Not one T. Yes.. coaches complain, but I've yet to hear a magic word, or have them read a decible level that wasn't quelmed with a simple "thats enough coach".

Thats just me. I've come close... but they all seem to know that look that I give them... and they shut it.

I'm SURE I'll have to eventually, but havn't had to yet.

[ILRef80]

Last week, I had a JV coach scream to his players "next time they touch you, knock them the hell out!". He was telling one of my partners about how we were missing some moving screens. None of the 3 of us really saw anything but, that type of comment deserves a T every time, wouldn't you guys say?