Was my partner too quick on the trigger?

[Mark Padgett]

OK - maybe I should have rephrased that. Last night, boys 8th grade A competitive game. Not much coming from the benches at all. Middle of Q3, home team ahead by 7 and there's a timeout. My partner is at the table reporting it and I'm going over with the ball to the throw in spot. Suddenly, he turns to me and says that there's a "bench technical" on white and we'll come out of the TO with two shots and the ball. I start to walk towards him to ask what happened but he tells me he'll tell me later. Meanwhile, the home HC has his arms up and is saying "What was that for? Can I please get an explanation?"

We shoot the T and continue the game. After the quarter, he tells me what happened. When he went to report the TO, the HC said to him, "You're missing a lot of calls out there." My partner turned and said, "What did you say?". The AC then said, "He said you're missing a lot of calls out there." WHACK! That was it. He called a T on the AC.

As I said, neither bench had been a problem prior to that point. Do you think a T was justified? Upon my inquiry, my partner said their tone wasn't particularly sarcastic or nasty but pretty straight forward.

I should mention that this guy is in his second year of officiating, if that makes any difference.

As you guys know, I'm usually not one to complain about giving out technicals, but I don't think even I would have done it then. I think a warning would have been sufficient. Oh yeah, the fun part was that I informed the HC he was seat belted. That went over really well.

[truerookie]

I don't know Mark, this could have been a situation where both coaches wanted to see how far they can go with this fairly new official.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I don't know Mark, this could have been a situation where both coaches wanted to see how far they can go with this fairly new official.

I see your point but these are "independent" teams and really have no idea beforehand how much experience each official has, unless they've seen him or her before. They all pretty much know me and some others as having been around a long time but that's really the exception, not the rule. Plus - there really wasn't any indication due to his performance up to that point in the game.

Oh yeah, he's about 40, so it wasn't as if he was a kid, either.

[deecee]

Could have been lack of experience. I think you giving him your input would have helped him. However in his defense the lower the level the less amount of @#$@# I want to, or will, take. But sounds like I would have responded to the coach with a simple "Ill look harder to see if I can find them."

Seriously, I would have warned the coach too.

[emmett921]

I'm a first year official and gave out my first Technical tonight in a Freshman boys game, competetive prep-school rivals. The visiting coach wanted a call for a push off during a loose ball. As the play was happening he called out "Come on you didn't see that.", then coming back by him the other way after a turnover about 8 seconds later I heard "You suck.", so I called a T. At the half he came up and asked about the T, I told him saying "You suck" to an official is pretty clear. At that point he said he had said "You saw it" and not "You suck". He may have said that, based on the fact that he approached me at the half to ask about it, but it didn't sound like it during the action. Should I have asked for an explanation at the time, given him a warning or what?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by emmett921

I'm a first year official and gave out my first Technical tonight in a Freshman boys game, competetive prep-school rivals. The visiting coach wanted a call for a push off during a loose ball. As the play was happening he called out "Come on you didn't see that.", then coming back by him the other way after a turnover about 8 seconds later I heard "You suck.", so I called a T. At the half he came up and asked about the T, I told him saying "You suck" to an official is pretty clear. At that point he said he had said "You saw it" and not "You suck". He may have said that, based on the fact that he approached me at the half to ask about it, but it didn't sound like it during the action. Should I have asked for an explanation at the time, given him a warning or what?

If you let every coach explain the meaning of what he said or what you think you heard....it could make for long games. If you believe you heard it, be sure, and do what you feel is right. It's just another call - and you can't take em back. With experience you'll do better and feel more confident.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by emmett921

I'm a first year official and gave out my first Technical tonight in a Freshman boys game, competetive prep-school rivals. The visiting coach wanted a call for a push off during a loose ball. As the play was happening he called out "Come on you didn't see that.", then coming back by him the other way after a turnover about 8 seconds later I heard "You suck.", so I called a T. At the half he came up and asked about the T, I told him saying "You suck" to an official is pretty clear. At that point he said he had said "You saw it" and not "You suck". He may have said that, based on the fact that he approached me at the half to ask about it, but it didn't sound like it during the action. Should I have asked for an explanation at the time, given him a warning or what?

Do you know how to tell when a coach is trying to work you? His lips are moving.

Odds are really, really good that what you heard is exactly what he said. After that, he's in "damage control" mode. Don't let him back on your good side unless he brings flowers and candy

Sounds like a righteous T to me.

[stosh]

Originally Posted by emmett921

I'm a first year official and gave out my first Technical tonight in a Freshman boys game, competetive prep-school rivals. The visiting coach wanted a call for a push off during a loose ball. As the play was happening he called out "Come on you didn't see that.", then coming back by him the other way after a turnover about 8 seconds later I heard "You suck.", so I called a T. At the half he came up and asked about the T, I told him saying "You suck" to an official is pretty clear. At that point he said he had said "You saw it" and not "You suck". He may have said that, based on the fact that he approached me at the half to ask about it, but it didn't sound like it during the action. Should I have asked for an explanation at the time, given him a warning or what?

If he said "you suck" it's automatic, and he knows that.

If he said "You saw it", depending on tone, he might have earned one anyway.

It doesn't really matter what he said, it what you hear that matters. If he wasn't questioning your judgement in the first place none of it would have happened. It's only a foul call and it's part of the game; it's not the end of the world to get one "wrong" once in a while.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

OK - maybe I should have rephrased that. Last night, boys 8th grade A competitive game. Not much coming from the benches at all. Middle of Q3, home team ahead by 7 and there's a timeout. My partner is at the table reporting it and I'm going over with the ball to the throw in spot. Suddenly, he turns to me and says that there's a "bench technical" on white and we'll come out of the TO with two shots and the ball. I start to walk towards him to ask what happened but he tells me he'll tell me later. Meanwhile, the home HC has his arms up and is saying "What was that for? Can I please get an explanation?"

We shoot the T and continue the game. After the quarter, he tells me what happened. When he went to report the TO, the HC said to him, "You're missing a lot of calls out there." My partner turned and said, "What did you say?". The AC then said, "He said you're missing a lot of calls out there." WHACK! That was it. He called a T on the AC.

As I said, neither bench had been a problem prior to that point. Do you think a T was justified? Upon my inquiry, my partner said their tone wasn't particularly sarcastic or nasty but pretty straight forward.

I should mention that this guy is in his second year of officiating, if that makes any difference.

As you guys know, I'm usually not one to complain about giving out technicals, but I don't think even I would have done it then. I think a warning would have been sufficient. Oh yeah, the fun part was that I informed the HC he was seat belted. That went over really well.

The 'T' may or may not have been warranted, but I rather work with a 2nd year official who has the guts to call a 'T'. He/She can learn to dial it back if needed; but at least you know he/she has it in them to take care of business when the situation arises.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The 'T' may or may not have been warranted, but I rather work with a 2nd year official who has the guts to call a 'T'. He/She can learn to dial it back if needed; but at least you know he/she has it in them to take care of business when the situation arises.

Hey thats me. I learned about taking care of bidness right here. In the real world I don't see alot of taking care of bidness.

So I read, I experimented,I'm learning. Did and do I still give out quick T's ?

yep. But it's all good cause I know when I have jumped too quick. But only 1 quick and undeserving T this.

[bgleason@neonin]

It was to quick. I might use that occasion to make a suggestion to the inexperienced partner. Never ask for something to be repeated; you invited that comment. It is easy when they give you a You Suck comment, that is an automatic T. I like to have the whole gym see a coach earn a Technical.

[ILRef80]

Last week, I had a JV coach scream to his players "next time they touch you, knock them the hell out!". He was telling one of my partners about how we were missing some moving screens. None of the 3 of us really saw anything but, that type of comment deserves a T every time, wouldn't you guys say?

[Junker]

I'm not sure you can be too quick on the trigger in an 8th grade game. I have no problem with him whacking a coach for that statement at that level. In a V game that coach would be finished complaining for the night and I would alert my partners to that fact.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

Last week, I had a JV coach scream to his players "next time they touch you, knock them the hell out!". He was telling one of my partners about how we were missing some moving screens. None of the 3 of us really saw anything but, that type of comment deserves a T every time, wouldn't you guys say?

I don't think so. Maybe it was his way of telling the players to be strong with the ball? He isn't directly commenting on your officiating, I would ignore it. Just call the fouls when his players "knock them the hell out."

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by Junker

I don't think so. Maybe it was his way of telling the players to be strong with the ball? He isn't directly commenting on your officiating, I would ignore it. Just call the fouls when his players "knock them the hell out."

Interesting. I keep replaying this in my mind - but I do stand by the T. If he says it during a TO or something I'm going to ignore it. But when he said it during a dead ball, for the whole gym to hear, I felt I had to get it.

I could be wrong, that's just how I see it.