Player control foul at end of game

[robertclasalle]

Attached video shows last minute of Bergen County (NJ) Tournament game (NFHS) last Saturday, several lead changes in the last minute, 9 seconds left, Saddle Brook (dark jerseys) now leading by one, Pascack Hills (white jerseys) drive to basket, scores layup, Pascack Hills now appears to be up by one with 3 seconds to go, but lead calls a charge, disallows the basket, "scorer" then goes wild, draws a tech, Saddle Brook scores one of the two tech shots, wins by two. Interesting video, ballsy but good call by official. Question: one of the game announcers asks whether the basket gets wiped on a player control foul. In NFHS, doesn't it always get wiped? Somebody told me in NCAA, a PCF doesn't always disallow the basket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMvdujeO-pk

[grunewar]

It is my understanding in NFHS that the ball becomes dead and try ends immediately when the foul occurs, therefore no basket.

Great film and announcing! Entertaining for sure!

[Mark Dexter]

In NFHS and NCAA-W, a player control foul causes the basket to be cancelled.

In NCAA-M, the PC foul and basket can both be counted if the foul occurs after the shooter has released the ball.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by robertclasalle

Attached video shows last minute of Bergen County (NJ) Tournament game (NFHS) last Saturday, several lead changes in the last minute, 9 seconds left, Saddle Brook (dark jerseys) now leading by one, Pascack Hills (white jerseys) drive to basket, scores layup, Pascack Hills now appears to be up by one with 3 seconds to go, but lead calls a charge, disallows the basket, "scorer" then goes wild, draws a tech, Saddle Brook scores one of the two tech shots, wins by two. Interesting video, ballsy but good call by official. Question: one of the game announcers asks whether the basket gets wiped on a player control foul. In NFHS, doesn't it always get wiped? Somebody told me in NCAA, a PCF doesn't always disallow the basket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMvdujeO-pk

Fed: Correct, a player control foul always negates the possibility of a counted basket.

As for the video, the play in question is at the 3:05 mark. Great call by the L on the PC. Also a good T.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

In NCAA-M, the PC foul and basket can both be counted if the foul occurs after the shooter has released the ball.

In which case, there's no player control. So a charge after the release of the try is actually NOT a player control foul at all.

Which means that in all three rulesets -- NFHS, NCAAM, NCAAW -- a PC causes the ball to become dead immediately and no basket can be scored.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In which case, there's no player control. So a charge after the release of the try is actually NOT a player control foul at all.

Which means that in all three rulesets -- NFHS, NCAAM, NCAAW -- a PC causes the ball to become dead immediately and no basket can be scored.

Right. The difference is in the definition of "player control foul." In all three rule sets, the defintion includes "by a player in control of the ball." In NCAAW and FED (but not NCAAM) it also includes "or by an airborne shooter."

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In which case, there's no player control. So a charge after the release of the try is actually NOT a player control foul at all.

Which means that in all three rulesets -- NFHS, NCAAM, NCAAW -- a PC causes the ball to become dead immediately and no basket can be scored.

Thanks for setting the reasoning straight.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Thanks for setting the reasoning straight.

Hey, that's what friends are for.



(Wow, that's a disturbingly old reference. )

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Hey, that's what friends are for.

(Wow, that's a disturbingly old reference. )

Word.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by robertclasalle

Attached video shows last minute of Bergen County (NJ) Tournament game (NFHS) last Saturday, several lead changes in the last minute, 9 seconds left, Saddle Brook (dark jerseys) now leading by one, Pascack Hills (white jerseys) drive to basket, scores layup, Pascack Hills now appears to be up by one with 3 seconds to go, but lead calls a charge, disallows the basket, "scorer" then goes wild, draws a tech, Saddle Brook scores one of the two tech shots, wins by two. Interesting video, ballsy but good call by official. Question: one of the game announcers asks whether the basket gets wiped on a player control foul. In NFHS, doesn't it always get wiped? Somebody told me in NCAA, a PCF doesn't always disallow the basket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMvdujeO-pk

#30 got whacked, not the scorer. Watch #30 after the call, although you only see the gesturing at the end and have no idea what he may have said, if anything.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

#30 got whacked, not the scorer.

The original post has "scorer" in quotation marks, meaning "the kid who scored"; not the guy keeping the scorebook at the table. My initial reaction was the same as yours until I read the post again.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The original post has "scorer" in quotation marks, meaning "the kid who scored"; not the guy keeping the scorebook at the table. My initial reaction was the same as yours until I read the post again.

Oh. Right.

Thanks.

[lpbreeze]

i wonder if the Sopranos were watching the game

[buckrog64]

At 5:25 in the video, right after the conclusion of the game, one of the winning players is seen in front of the opponents bench putting his hand to his ear, 'let me hear you now' type of gesture, and a coach (presumably from his team) can be seen chasing him out of the way. Bit of taunting going on with the refs still on the floor. I'm guessing it never would have been called, but it could have made things even more interesting.