Shot Clock rule in NFHS?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Yes for an NCAA game.

I didn't ask about NCAA rules; I asked about NFHS rules. Your answer?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The restrictions do end when the ball touches the backboard. That's a basic and Billy knew that. Now you tell me, do the restrictions similarly end when the ball on a FT hits the flange?

I decided to not be lazy with this. I went into the other room, got out my bag, got the rule book out of my bag, and came up with a citation, even though I already knew Jurassic Referee was correct about LDUB's question.
9-1-4: The restrictions apply until the ball touches the ring or backboard or until the free throw ends.
It looks like Connecticut IAABO, in their prep school rule differences, "missed the boat" on this one.

Flange?
1-10-1: Basket shall consist of a single metal ring, it's flange and braces, and a net.
This definition is precisely worded for basket interference situations, but it doesn't seem to work for free throw violations, which only refer to the ring. Has the NFHS "missed the boat" on this one? Would it be easier to add flange and net to the free throw violation wording, or to substitute the word "basket" instead or ring in the same portion of the rule book? Or, does the NFHS have a reason for not including the flange in the rule.

Jurassic Referee: Have you known about this NFHS inconsistency for a while, or did you just discover it. Has anyone on this Forum noticed this, and if so, has anyone with any authority, like an association, or board, interpreter, tried to correct this?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1-10-1: Basket shall consist of a single metal ring, it's flange and braces, and a net.
This definition is precisely worded for basket interference situations, but it doesn't seem to work for free throw violations, which only refer to the ring. Has the NFHS "missed the boat" on this one? Would it be easier to add flange and net to the free throw violation wording, or to substitute the word "basket" instead or ring in the same portion of the rule book? Or, does the NFHS have a reason for not including the flange in the rule.

Jurassic Referee: Have you known about this NFHS inconsistency for a while, or did you just discover it.

Yup. I knew about the FED inconsistency but it just wasn't worth bothering about imo, Billy. I don't know how you could possibly have a ball hit just the flange with it also touching either the backboard or the ring at the same time. The ball is just too big to touch the flange only. The language difference is just inconsequential as far as I'm concerned. High school and NCAA officials call it exactly the same way anyway methinks.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Has the NFHS "missed the boat" on this one? Would it be easier to add flange and net to the free throw violation wording, or to substitute the word "basket" instead or ring in the same portion of the rule book?

If the ball hits the (outside of the) net without hitting the ring, it's pretty clear to me that the FT has ended.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

FYI, here are our Connecticut IAABO hybrid NFHS and NCAA prep school rules

Billy - are these statewide or local? My board seems to have a slightly different PDF.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I didn't ask about NCAA rules; I asked about NFHS rules.

You sure?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Now you tell me....do the restrictions similarly end when the ball on a FT hits the flange?

I don't see you asking about any type of rules.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here in Connecticut, we use a shot clock for both boys, and girls, prep school games. These prep schools use a hybrid version of both NFHS and NCAA rules, although two prep school outside our area uase 100% NCAA rules.

What do you do if there is a double foul and the ball remains with the offense? Reset the clock? Or not?

The IAABO rule does not cover this. It says to reset on a pesonal foul, but is silent about a double foul. The NCAA says not to reset.

Massachusetts uses a shot clock, but the rule is too vague. This is the entire rule:

"The 30-second shot clock will be utilized at all levels in both boys and girls games."

It does not reference the NCAA rule, although historically that was the basis for the shot clock rules. The IAABO shot clock rules used to be posted on the MIAA Web site. But a footnote in the official MIAA handbook referred to a different set of shot clock rules, which mirrored the NCAA rules (and included the double foul rule) with one exception -- there is a reset on all kick balls.

I think IAABO needs to update its instruction sheet.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by LDUB

You sure?


I don't see you asking about any type of rules.

Those are the exact answers that I expected from you.

Billy knew what I was getting at. Obviously you didn't.

[FrankHtown]

I wish we had a shot clock in Texas. I'd be nice to slow the game down a bit.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Billy: Are these statewide, or local? My board seems to have a slightly different PDF.

http://www.iaabo6.org/Interp/guideli...ock%202007.pdf

The link above, will direct you to the IAABO Shot Clock Operators Instructions, which is on our local board's website. Our interpreter is pretty good about citing references, and this instruction sheet appears to from IAABO international. I don't see any reference to our local, or state board, on the instruction sheet. The only reference on the instruction sheet states "Prepared by the Visualization and Education Committee of the International Association of Approved Basketball Officials, Inc", and that it was revised in September, 2007.

That's all that I can tell you.

[BillyMac]

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]The restrictions do end when the ball touches the backboard. QUOTE]

NFHS: Yes
NCAA: ????

NCAA officials. Please help.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The only reference on the instruction sheet states "Prepared by the Visualization and Education Committee of the International Association of Approved Basketball Officials, Inc", and that it was revised in September, 2007.

What is the rules basis for these instructions? IAABO is not a rules-making authority. It teaches and instructs on rules developed by NFHS or NCAA. Since the NFHS does not recognize the shot clock, there are no NFHS shot clock rules.

These are the same IAABO rules that Massachusetts had on its Web site, but which have since been removed in favor of an NCAA "instruction sheet" that carries the MIAA logo. http://www.miaa.net/bskshotclock.pdf

[Jurassic Referee]

[QUOTE=BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The restrictions do end when the ball touches the backboard. QUOTE]

NFHS: Yes
NCAA: ????

NCAA officials. Please help.

NCAA is backboard, flange or ring. NFHS is backboard or ring.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

What is the rules basis for these instructions? IAABO is not a rules-making authority. It teaches and instructs on rules developed by NFHS or NCAA. Since the NFHS does not recognize the shot clock, there are no NFHS shot clock rules.

My understanding is that in cases where a separate state-only rule, like shot clock rules, is being implemented, the governing rules body of that state can implement any rule that they want to. They can go with NCAA or FIBA rules, modify either of those rules, or simply make up their own. And if IAABO has been designated as the governing rules body by any individual state that wants to enact a shot clock, then it is up to IAABO to implement the rules that they want to.

I believe that's true for New York girls, California and any other states that use shot clock rules in high school too. The individual state governing rules body just puts in what they want to.

If I'm wrong, maybe someone from one of those states can correct me.

[BillyMac]

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NCAA is backboard, flange or ring. NFHS is backboard or ring.

Thank you.