shot or pass??

[phansen]

NFHS. A1 goes up for a 12 foot baseline shot. While in the air he is fouled, but before returning to the ground manages to attempt a pass to a teammate. This all happened very fast. I am certain he was initially attempting a shot, but the contact made him change his mind. 2 shot foul or A's ball OB??

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS. A1 goes up for a 12 foot baseline shot. While in the air he is fouled, but before returning to the ground manages to attempt a pass to a teammate. This all happened very fast. I am certain he was initially attempting a shot, but the contact made him change his mind. 2 shot foul or A's ball OB??

A1 goes up for a 12 foot baseline shot

nuff said.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by phansen

before returning to the ground manages to attempt a pass to a teammate.

I would have to say....ummmm maybe not nuff said...with that said however if you can go ahead and say that the foul kept the player from getting the shot off, you can call it on the shot...but it sure looks funny if he passes it out to the free throw line and you give him 2 shots???

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS. A1 goes up for a 12 foot baseline shot. While in the air he is fouled, but before returning to the ground manages to attempt a pass to a teammate.

'Nuff said.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by cmathews

I would have to say....ummmm maybe not nuff said...with that said however if you can go ahead and say that the foul kept the player from getting the shot off, you can call it on the shot...but it sure looks funny if he passes it out to the free throw line and you give him 2 shots???

On one hand, you're guessing at what the airborne player actually was intending to do.,...pass vs. shot. On the other hand, you can call what actually happened....a pass.

Not really a tough decision imo....

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

On one hand, you're guessing at what the airborne player actually was intending to do.,...pass vs. shot. On the other hand, you can call what actually happened....a pass.

Not really a tough decision imo....

JR........maybe not enough said

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by fullor30

JR........maybe not enough said

Why not? The only thing which is certain is the pass. The rest is guess work and officials don't guess.

Ciao

[bob jenkins]

Somewhere, there's a specific NFHS interp that this is to be ruled a foul in the act of shooting.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Somewhere, there's a specific NFHS interp that this is to be ruled a foul in the act of shooting.

Well, now I don't feel that bad. Doesn't the foul take precedent to any following action?

I can see it both ways, another let's go to the videotape case.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Why not? The only thing which is certain is the pass. The rest is guess work and officials don't guess.

Ciao

Please reread and note my embarassment icon.............I'm agreeing with JR.

[Brad]

If the foul was first I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. That is, he starts his shooting motion, gets fouled, then passes = it's a shooting foul.

If he starts his shooting motion, sees that the guy is about to foul him, starts to pass the ball, and is then fouled = it's a pass.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I agree with JR and the rules (NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA) back us up on this one. I will reference NFHS Rules in my post.


R4-S11-A1: Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.

R4-S11-A2: If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

R4-S41-A1: The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne shooter.

R4-S41-A2: A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team’s own basket. A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

R4-S41-A3: The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

R4-S41-A4: The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball becomes dead.


A1 may have been in the act of shooting when he was fouled by B1, BUT B1's foul did not keep A1 from releasing the ball for a try, in fact it did not keep from A1 from passing the ball to A2. This play is a good example of seeing the whole play before signaling whether free throws are part of the penalty. Go ahead and signal a foul, but be patient in signaling free throws. The delay should be only long enough to see what A1 does with the ball.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

R4-S11-A2: If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

The player is allowed to complete the "customary arm movement" of a "try", not a pass.

"Nuff said.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

R4-S41-A3: The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

This is the only one you need because the PENALTY section of 10-6 says to award 2 free throws to a player who is fouled in the act of shooting. What happens after the foul is irrelevant (except for determining the number of free throws).

Once you start the motion, you're in the act of shooting. If you're fouled in the act of shooting, you're getting free throws. It's that simple.