Guidance Requested

[Rufus]

I've had a situation come up in pretty much every game I've done and for the first time I questioned my approach after a game last night.

Situation: Team A is on offense and just put up a shot. B1 has blocked out A1 and both have jumped for the rebound. B1's hands are straight up and not coming down. A1 pokes the ball from behind and the ball comes shooting out of bounds. Ball awarded to Team B for a throw in.

Pretty straight-forward, yes? Selling this call is not easy, however, because all anyone sees is B1 in front of A1 so the ball must have been poked out by B1.

My approach to this has been twofold: (1) determine who poked it out first then (2) back that up with what was seen (i.e., B1's hands stayed up reaching for the rebound - How could the ball have been poked out on a line unless it was done by A1 behind? If it had glanced off of B1's hands and they kept their arms up for the rebound the ball wouldn't have come off in a line drive).

How do you all approach this situation? I understand that if you don't have definitive knowledge of who knocked it out you go first to your partner to see what they saw and then to the AP arrow if neither have definitive knowledge. I'm more interested in knowing your experiences with this situation and any different ways of approaching it.

Thanks in advance.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Situation: Team A is on offense and just put up a shot. B1 has blocked out A1 and both have jumped for the rebound. B1's hands are straight up and not coming down. A1 pokes the ball from behind and the ball comes shooting out of bounds. Ball awarded to Team B for a throw in.

Pretty straight-forward, yes? Selling this call is not easy, however, because all anyone sees is B1 in front of A1 so the ball must have been poked out by B1.

My approach to this has been twofold: (1) determine who poked it out first .......

Shorten your approach to onefold. All you have to do is determine who knocked the ball OOB. Period. There's no need to sell anything. Just make the call like you'd make any other OOB call. Get the ball back into play and go.

Quit second-guessing yourself. You've got plenty of people in the gym that are quite willing to that for you. You're overthinking the hell outa the play.

[jdw3018]

JR is right. The only thing I'll sometimes do is if there are several players in the area and there is potential for confusion, after I signal the direction I'll point to the player who was last to touch the ball.

Some would say unnecessary, I think it helps sell that I actually know what I'm calling. It's worked for me so far, anyway...

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I've had a situation come up in pretty much every game I've done and for the first time I questioned my approach after a game last night.

Situation: Team A is on offense and just put up a shot. B1 has blocked out A1 and both have jumped for the rebound. B1's hands are straight up and not coming down. A1 pokes the ball from behind and the ball comes shooting out of bounds. Ball awarded to Team B for a throw in.

Pretty straight-forward, yes? Selling this call is not easy, however, because all anyone sees is B1 in front of A1 so the ball must have been poked out by B1.

My approach to this has been twofold: (1) determine who poked it out first then (2) back that up with what was seen (i.e., B1's hands stayed up reaching for the rebound - How could the ball have been poked out on a line unless it was done by A1 behind? If it had glanced off of B1's hands and they kept their arms up for the rebound the ball wouldn't have come off in a line drive).

How do you all approach this situation? I understand that if you don't have definitive knowledge of who knocked it out you go first to your partner to see what they saw and then to the AP arrow if neither have definitive knowledge. I'm more interested in knowing your experiences with this situation and any different ways of approaching it.

Thanks in advance.

Blow your whistle and point. If the Coach strongly insists it's going the other way (rarely happens) check with your partner if he says I saw it different you have a choice either change your call or stick with what you have. In either case you're demonstrating that "you're trying to get it right". If you have to do this every game you have a problem in positioning or selling the call because of poor mechanics.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

JR is right. The only thing I'll sometimes do is if there are several players in the area and there is potential for confusion, after I signal the direction I'll point to the player who was last to touch the ball.

Some would say unnecessary, I think it helps sell that I actually know what I'm calling. It's worked for me so far, anyway...

On occasion, I may even go as far as vocalizing it - i.e. "Off 32 white, blue ball!" Unnecessary? Maybe. But, it helps sell it and let the coaches/players know I have a definite, emphatic call. And, then as was stated, get the ball in play quickly and move on....

[Rufus]

Thanks for the confirmation of what I thought. The situation came up last night in a close game with little time left on the clock. I called it like I saw it and was very clear in my mechanics, both stopping the clock and indicating direction. I did confer with my partner but he came up double-cherries (rightfully so, he was looking for a push by A1 and didn't see the tap).

I'll definitely make sure I'm in position to see who knocked it out, call it clearly, and move on with life. Thanks again.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Thanks for the confirmation of what I thought. The situation came up last night in a close game with little time left on the clock. I called it like I saw it and was very clear in my mechanics, both stopping the clock and indicating direction. I did confer with my partner but he came up double-cherries (rightfully so, he was looking for a push by A1 and didn't see the tap).

I'll definitely make sure I'm in position to see who knocked it out, call it clearly, and move on with life. Thanks again.

If you are certain of your call - and it's your call to make - don't go to your partner. Make the call. Going to your partner only calls into question whether you saw it.

If your partner has information for you that he believes you couldn't see, then he should come to you. If you don't have clear information, then you should go to your partner.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Blow your whistle and point. If the Coach strongly insists it's going the other way (rarely happens) check with your partner if he says I saw it different you have a choice either change your call or stick with what you have. In either case you're demonstrating that "you're trying to get it right". If you have to do this every game you have a problem in positioning or selling the call because of poor mechanics.

Do this, but before you point put your open hand straight up in the air to stop the clock. Just nit picking for NFHS mechanics.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by grunewar

On occasion, I may even go as far as vocalizing it - i.e. "Off 32 white, blue ball!" Unnecessary? Maybe. But, it helps sell it and let the coaches/players know I have a definite, emphatic call. And, then as was stated, get the ball in play quickly and move on....

Be careful with this! Lots of times, all coaches will hear out of this is "White......Blue" and they think you're changing your call. If you say Blue, it must have been knocked OOB by White, and vice versa.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If you are certain of your call - and it's your call to make - don't go to your partner. Make the call. Going to your partner only calls into question whether you saw it.

If your partner has information for you that he believes you couldn't see, then he should come to you. If you don't have clear information, then you should go to your partner.

You should rarely go to your partner. When the whole bench, Coach and crowd is complaining maybe just maybe you're wrong (even though you think your right) go to your partner if he/she has info. for you it's your decision to either change or stick with your call. If you don't change it at least you checked. Never say never. When I'm Lead on a three person crew and the ball goes out of bounds on the weak side about 90% of the time I'm looking to the Center for help every one knows I didn't see it because I'm off ball. And I don't like secret signals. Go strong and I'll mirrror my partner. Rarely have to go to the arrow.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

You should rarely go to your partner. When the whole bench, Coach and crowd is complaining maybe just maybe you're wrong (even though you think your right) go to your partner if he/she has info. for you it's your decision to either change or stick with your call. If you don't change it at least you checked. Never say never. When I'm Lead on a three person crew and the ball goes out of bounds on the weak side about 90% of the time I'm looking to the Center for help every one knows I didn't see it because I'm off ball. And I don't like secret signals. Go strong and I'll mirrror my partner. Rarely have to go to the arrow.

I agree - if you don't know what happened, you go to your partner.

My post was regarding a situation when it's your call and you're pretty sure you're right. In those situations, go strong with your call and rely on your partner to come to you if he has information.

OOB calls are harder than many give credit for. There's a lot of action to watch, and all of us have blown that call. But, you can't go to your partner every time you're less than 100% sure. If you're completely unsure, then yes, but if you have information that makes you fairly certain, and your partner likely doesn't have any more information than you, go strong with your call.

[ca_rumperee]

I'm lead, Green ball in the far corner.
Pass into Green cutter in the key, misses her completely
White player touches pass, which keeps going toward my sideline.
I have a Green player in front of me, all I see is her backside.
She is near ball, but I can't see any touch.

Ball goes out on my sideline.
Arm raised, air in whistle, and quick glance at partners body language.
He's not moving toward other end, so I have
"Green!"
White coach is close to me groans.
"Partner, have anything?"
Shakes head no.
Off we go. Green ball.

[canuckref]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I've had a situation come up in pretty much every game I've done and for the first time I questioned my approach after a game last night.

Situation: Team A is on offense and just put up a shot. B1 has blocked out A1 and both have jumped for the rebound. B1's hands are straight up and not coming down. A1 pokes the ball from behind and the ball comes shooting out of bounds. Ball awarded to Team B for a throw in.

Pretty straight-forward, yes? Selling this call is not easy, however, because all anyone sees is B1 in front of A1 so the ball must have been poked out by B1.

My approach to this has been twofold: (1) determine who poked it out first then (2) back that up with what was seen (i.e., B1's hands stayed up reaching for the rebound - How could the ball have been poked out on a line unless it was done by A1 behind? If it had glanced off of B1's hands and they kept their arms up for the rebound the ball wouldn't have come off in a line drive).

How do you all approach this situation? I understand that if you don't have definitive knowledge of who knocked it out you go first to your partner to see what they saw and then to the AP arrow if neither have definitive knowledge. I'm more interested in knowing your experiences with this situation and any different ways of approaching it.

Thanks in advance.

Tell the benches loudly you are going to have to go the replay...run to the table, put a towel over your head for a minute or so (preferably black)..then come running back out and say replay has confirmed it is B's ball on the end. This should at least get you the respect and admiration of the football fans in the audience.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I've had a situation come up in pretty much every game I've done and for the first time I questioned my approach after a game last night.

Situation: Team A is on offense and just put up a shot. B1 has blocked out A1 and both have jumped for the rebound. B1's hands are straight up and not coming down. A1 pokes the ball from behind and the ball comes shooting out of bounds. Ball awarded to Team B for a throw in.

Pretty straight-forward, yes? Selling this call is not easy, however, because all anyone sees is B1 in front of A1 so the ball must have been poked out by B1.

My approach to this has been twofold: (1) determine who poked it out first then (2) back that up with what was seen (i.e., B1's hands stayed up reaching for the rebound - How could the ball have been poked out on a line unless it was done by A1 behind? If it had glanced off of B1's hands and they kept their arms up for the rebound the ball wouldn't have come off in a line drive).

How do you all approach this situation? I understand that if you don't have definitive knowledge of who knocked it out you go first to your partner to see what they saw and then to the AP arrow if neither have definitive knowledge. I'm more interested in knowing your experiences with this situation and any different ways of approaching it.

Thanks in advance.

Rufus,

In an average game you might only need to sell a handful of calls. Other than that anytime you blow your whistle, it should be business as usual. blow your whistle, raise your fist/palm, make your call and move on. At any given point half the occupants of the gym will disagree with you. You cannot change that.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

JR is right. The only thing I'll sometimes do is if there are several players in the area and there is potential for confusion, after I signal the direction I'll point to the player who was last to touch the ball.

Some would say unnecessary, I think it helps sell that I actually know what I'm calling. It's worked for me so far, anyway...

-- And Welmer. It is useful at times, I agree, and I've never been told -including at camps when I've done it, not to do it.