Not sure about this one? Guidance please?

[walter]

Christmas tournament championship game. Three person crew. I'm lead table side, the table is to my left. A1 dribbling with the left hand and driving hard to the basket from the wing and down the middle. I see B1 in the lane C-side whack A1 across the upper arm/shoulder area. A1 then gets lost in a sea of bodies in the paint, emerges a split second later and lays the ball in. I had a whistle when the contact occurred but then I couldn't tell whether the dribble ended or if A1 started the shooting motion. I wiped off the basket at the spot where I blew the whistle. Team A coach immediately starts jumps up in the air yelling that A1 had clearly started the try. As I headed to the table to report I stopped and asked T whether he saw the play especially since I admit I lost the player after contact for a brief second in the paint and couldn't tell whether the dribble was over or not when I blew the whistle. T tells me the dribble had in fact ended right as or right sfter I blew the whistle. I then went to the table, and based on that information counted the basket and reported the foul. Team B coach wanted an explanation. I told him I couldn't tell when the dribble ended so that's why I initially waived it off but after conferring with my partner, I knew I kicked it. There is no doubt about the foul and the try for goal had started and that's why even though I wiped it off, the basket does in fact count. I then told him I'd work harder to get better angles. He thanked for the explanation and the game went on. In the locker room at half, we talked about it and my partners felt that even though I corrected the initial call and got it right, since I intially waived it off, we should have lived with the waive off and proceeded from there. What do you fine folks think?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by walter
Christmas tournament championship game. Three person crew. I'm lead table side, the table is to my left. A1 dribbling with the left hand and driving hard to the basket from the wing and down the middle. I see B1 in the lane C-side whack A1 across the upper arm/shoulder area. A1 then gets lost in a sea of bodies in the paint, emerges a split second later and lays the ball in. I had a whistle when the contact occurred but then I couldn't tell whether the dribble ended or if A1 started the shooting motion. I wiped off the basket at the spot where I blew the whistle. Team A coach immediately starts jumps up in the air yelling that A1 had clearly started the try. As I headed to the table to report I stopped and asked T whether he saw the play especially since I admit I lost the player after contact for a brief second in the paint and couldn't tell whether the dribble was over or not when I blew the whistle. T tells me the dribble had in fact ended right as or right sfter I blew the whistle. I then went to the table, and based on that information counted the basket and reported the foul. Team B coach wanted an explanation. I told him I couldn't tell when the dribble ended so that's why I initially waived it off but after conferring with my partner, I knew I kicked it. There is no doubt about the foul and the try for goal had started and that's why even though I wiped it off, the basket does in fact count. I then told him I'd work harder to get better angles. He thanked for the explanation and the game went on. In the locker room at half, we talked about it and my partners felt that even though I corrected the initial call and got it right, since I intially waived it off, we should have lived with the waive off and proceeded from there. What do you fine folks think?

If the dribble had ended right at or just after your whistle just how did the shooting motion begin?

There had to be some reaction time from contact to your whistle so, if the dribbled ended with or after the whistle the foul occurred BEFORE the ball was gathered.

[Back In The Saddle]

In this situation would it be good huddle with your partner, decide if the bucket goes before an initial signal? Kind of unusual, but probably better than changing the wipe-off after the fact?

[BktBallRef]

I agree with your partners. If you don't KNOW that the try had begun, don't wave it off and then change the call. Stick with the wave off.

[blindzebra]

From what was written, I'm not so sure the wave off was not the correct call anyway.

You described contact on a dribbler that you saw and then he got in a bunch of players and you lost him.

That sounds like the dribble was gathered after contact.

Your partner said, "The gather occurred just as or slightly after your whistle," again that clearly suggests a foul on a dribbler, not a shooter, since there has to be some reaction time for you to blow your whistle.

I'd say that not only shouldn't you wave it off and then change it, but you changed it to what sounds like the incorrect call.

[Chris Whitten]

Either confer before or stick with wave-off. I can't believe B coach didn't go off on you for "getting talked into it" by A coach. Then letting you hear about it the rest of th game.

[walter]

I was kind of surprised by team B coach's reaction as well. Looking back, once I made the preliminary signal, I should have just stuck with it. Thanks for the input and since this has occurred, I've worked real hard at not giving a prelim signal in any situation.

[JRutledge]

Probably the reason you were not sure is you were going to fast. Slow down and make a decision and stick with it. This is not a play you should even discuss with your partner unless you need help to determine if the basket went in. If you screwed up, it would not be the first time and it will not be the last.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by walter
I was kind of surprised by team B coach's reaction as well. Looking back, once I made the preliminary signal, I should have just stuck with it. Thanks for the input and since this has occurred, I've worked real hard at not giving a prelim signal in any situation.

I think this may be a bit of overcorrection. Usually, the benefit of a prelim far outweighs the embarassment from the few times something like this occurrs.

Try to be sure of what you have before you call a foul. Slowing down a beat may give you a "slow" whistle, but you'll be much more certain of your call.

[walter]

Thanks for the advice guys. Slowing down is something I always talk about with the officials who I am assigned to mentor. Slow down, see it all, then go. Thanks again. That's why I love this forum.