Too Many "T's"?

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Folks get T'ed for violating the 3 P's: personal, profane, or prolonged. No matter how bad my calls are, participants are not thereby justified in violating the 3 P's.

You are 100% correct. However, "bad calls" are what almost always leads to the 3 P's, along with being defensive or overly-aggressive as an official. Body language and tone of voice also have a lot to do with it. How you say somethign to a coach or player is more important than what you say.

Coaches and players rarely blow up unless there has been some series of calls or events where they perceive they are wronged. Unless you want to analyze the causes and attempt to use people skills to minimize them to the greatest possible extent, you'll continue to get those reactions, give a bunch of T's, and avoid maximizing your abilities as an official.

OP stated that he gets put in those positions. That's a victim mentality. He'll find the answers he's looking for when he acknowledges that he puts himself in those situations, and tries to determine how to change his judgment and/or projection to participants in the future.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I doubt you are thin-skinned, but you are doing something to cause those reactions from coaches and players. I rarely see players or coaches get T'd up for reacting to one obvious correct call that goes against them. Fair or not, perception is important.

So, are you saying it's perhaps Terrapins Fan's fault? Is it unacceptable if a coach acts inappropriately after a correct call, but ok if they do the same thing after an incorrect call?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Coaches and players rarely blow up unless there has been some series of calls or events where they perceive they are wronged.

This statement is correct.

However, every player and coach is different and reacts differently to any kind of game management techniques used to diffuse these situations. There are some coaches and players who are going to get whacked no matter what. There are some that will respond well to an official and back down before crossing the line.

Every time I T a coach for unsportsmanlike conduct, I review the situation to see if I could have done anything differently. Most of the time, my answer is no - based on the information I had at the time. One time this year I gave a T to a coach and in reviewing I said something in an attempt to calm that actually aggravated the situation. But it didn't excuse what happened next to necessitate the T.

All of the Ts in the OP were earned - and many of them should have been earned earlier than they were. We have no idea if any other "game management" techniques could have been used...

Oh, and edited to add: sometimes their perception is so far from reality that it doesn't matter. And then there's nothing an official can do but whack them and move on. Ignorance is a tripping point for me...

[chartrusepengui]

My daughter - 2nd year and younger official asked me why I don't get any "crap" from coaches the way she does. My response was - because I am rarely in conversation with them. The only warning they might get is a non-verbal stop sign - and if offense is such that it doesn't warrant that - it's an immediate WHACK. I told her that she spends way too much time speaking with coaches and trying to justify a call or lack of a call. That is not her job. I wasn't very sympathetic and told her just to do her job.

Yesterday - she called her very first T early in game. She called me to tell me it was on a coach who has been "a pain" for 2 years but after the T he was very polite etc. After the game she was a little anxious when he approached her as she was leaving the floor but all he said to her was it was about time she nailed him. He admitted that he would have kept it up until he found her limit.

Do your job - then forget about it.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Sounds to me like you're working lower level games, cause we simply don't have varsity coaches that act this badly where I live. If these are varsity level coaches, then there are a lot of officials not TCB, it appears. If these are lower level games, it could be the other officials are intimidated by the coaches and avoid TCB. You don't do that, so that's a good thing.

For 3 years I think I led the area in baseball ejections and coach technicals after moving to the area. Now I have the reputation as a good official (I think, although one can never be too sure) who won't take any crap. That's where you want to be. You want the coaches to see you, recognize you as a competent official, know that you're approachable and will talk to them, but also recognize that if they act up, they're going to get whacked. I haven't whacked a head coach in 3 seasons now. My line hasn't changed a bit, but many schools I go to now, the coaches recognize me and know what they're going to get.

Rich - wholeheartedly concur! When I TCB - especially at the lower levels, it's usually because my predecessors have not. Whether that be uniform violations, bench decorum, intentional fouls, court conduct, coaches banter, offensive fouls, etc. A good coach will learn to adjust.....especially if you're right!

After about 5 minutes of a game this weekend I had a coach yell to his players - "stop whining and adjust to the way the refs are calling the game!" Amen brother!

For the record, I gave out three T's all of last yr. I gave out three T's in my first ten games this yr (one coach, two players) and thought I was going down the wrong path too. But, no one has earned one since!

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, are you saying it's perhaps Terrapins Fan's fault? Is it unacceptable if a coach acts inappropriately after a correct call, but ok if they do the same thing after an incorrect call?

There is no fault, period. He has done nothing wrong. He asked if he was giving too many T's, and I tried to give him something to think about. He has to figure out the answer for himself. If my input doesn't help, no big deal.

Early in my career, I should have given more T's than I did, but I also did a lot of things that caused those situations to occur. Now I am deft enough to manage around those situations, due to better judgment/call selection and understanding the player/coach point of view. So they occur far less frequently, and I rarely have to give T's. I've given 3 this year, all to players. That's about an average year for me. I have very, very few problems with coaches. Maybe I'll change my screen name to CoachWhisperer.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

OP stated that he gets put in those positions. That's a victim mentality. He'll find the answers he's looking for when he acknowledges that he puts himself in those situations, and tries to determine how to change his judgment and/or projection to participants in the future.

Originally Posted by TheOracle

There is no fault, period. He has done nothing wrong.

Hmm...which is it?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Hmm...which is it?

Uhm.... Old School math?

I believe it's referred to in educational circles as "Chaos Theory."

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Why do people agonize over T's? They are a part of the game. Just do your job, call them when needed and you'll live a much less stressful existence.

What Dan said - a "T" is just another kind of foul. I've had seasons where I didn't call any, and some where I called a bunch.

Sometimes they just run in streaks. I had a couple early this season (delay of game & hanging on the rim after a missed dunk), then nothing until late January, when I called 7 in a two week period, 5 of those in 3 games over a 3 day period (PIL boys JV Juulie - 'nuff said).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I doubt you are thin-skinned, but you are doing something to cause those reactions from coaches and players. I rarely see players or coaches get T'd up for reacting to one obvious correct call that goes against them. Fair or not, perception is important.

I'm with Lord Byron. That's a complete load of crap.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Hmm...which is it?

He is the cause of the result. If he wants a different result, he needs to make a change in something. Or he can make the decision that all of his T's this year were warranted and there is nothing he could have done differently. Either way, there is no fault. We all have to draw our own conclusions. I hope Terrapin Fan at least tries something different. If he doesn't, no big deal.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Uhm.... Old School math?

I believe it's referred to in educational circles as "Chaos Theory."

Nope. Chaos Theory is way more logical and reasonable than what Oracle (and Old School) advocate.

[tmp44]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Nope. Chaos Theory is way more logical and reasonable than what Oracle (and Old School) advocate.

Whatever happened to Old School, anyways? I haven't read one of his third world comments for a long time it feels like....

[Adam]

Ended up having to say good bye. You can get your fix, however, by reading posts from Oracle.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

He is the cause of the result.

How is he the cause of the coach's actions?

Why isn't the coach responsible for their own actions?