Travelling or Block?

[Freddy]

Came up in recent rules meeting . . . happened tonight. Which rule prevails?

A1 comes down with rebound. B2 behind him stumbles to the floor. A1 turns to begin dribble and trips over B2.

Travelling violation on A1?

. . . or . . .

Blocking foul on B2 who, without both feet on the floor, lacks a "legal guarding position"?

I'm not so much interested in "What would you call?", rather "What is the rule?"

[BktBallRef]

NFHS - B1 doesn't have to have a legal guarding position. Every player is entitled to a space on the floor, as long as he obtains it legally. He obtained his space on the floor legally, without contacting another player. I can't tell you if A1 traveled or not. You said he started a dribble, so who knows?

NCAA - Blocking foul.

[sixer]

BBRef,
I'm curious as to why you think this is a block in NCAA. IMO, guard obtained LGP, and nothing in the subsequent movement was illegal. What am I missing?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by sixer

BBRef,
I'm curious as to why you think this is a block in NCAA. IMO, guard obtained LGP, and nothing in the subsequent movement was illegal. What am I missing?

Long story short: Even though the NFHS and NCAA rules are, word for word, the same. An NCAA Approved Ruling (and a stupid ruling, in my humble opinion, than cannot be supported by rule) states that this is a block. Go figure.

MTD, Sr.

[Rich]

I would love to see anyone, in real time, call this as anything but a foul on the B player.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I would love to see anyone, in real time, call this as anything but a foul on the B player.

You wwill not ever see me call a foul on B2 in an NFHS game and I would be hard pressed to call a foul on B2 in an NCAA game.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Under NFHS rules why would you ever call a foul on B2 is this case?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by sixer

BBRef,
I'm curious as to why you think this is a block in NCAA. IMO, guard obtained LGP, and nothing in the subsequent movement was illegal. What am I missing?

Sorry, your opinion is wrong.

NCAA A.R. 91.

B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his/her back to B1, who is prone) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You wwill not ever see me call a foul on B2 in an NFHS game and I would be hard pressed to call a foul on B2 in an NCAA game.

P.S. Under NFHS rules why would you ever call a foul on B2 is this case?

Perhaps just like you're ignoring the NCAA rule, he's ignoring the NFHS rule.

[sixer]

I will confess that I didn't recall the AR. But, when I went into the case book, I think, perhaps, we might have 2 different sitches.

If I read the original post correctly, B established LGP on a player with the ball before falling.

A.R. 87 (this year's book) has the B falling before A gets the ball, therefore never establishing LGP on a player with the ball.

I'm sticking with my opinion (even if it's wrong ).

[Adam]

LGP isn't relevant to a stationary player.

[BktBallRef]

So sixer, you're saying that once he has LGP, he can't lose it, no matter what he does, including lying down on the floor?

[sixer]

Disagree with that.
NFHS 4-23-4
NCAA 4-35

[sixer]

BBRef,
Not necessarily. However, lying on the floor does not cause contact. He doesn"t need to continue to have a foot on the floor. But, I'd have to see it to make an informed decision. As described above, I can"t definitively say block.

E.G., if the player fell to the floor to his side and then was run tripped over, I would call that a block. But falling straight back (my assumption of the described play), I can't see me calling it a block in either HS or College, and I'd live with the grief and explain as best I could if I had a chance to.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Sorry, your opinion is wrong.

NCAA A.R. 91.

B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his/her back to B1, who is prone) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position.

Perhaps just like you're ignoring the NCAA rule, he's ignoring the NFHS rule.

Tony:

I didn't say I would ignore the NCAA ruling, I said that I would be hard pressed to enforce it; I would make the call per the ruling but I wouldn't like it one bit.. It is a ruling that cannot be defended by rule and that just makes my very very irritated.

MTD, Sr,

[johnSandlin]

Had this exact play on our state rules exam. Still much discussion going on about this situation.