Question about a T on a coach

[Flexbelt83]

First ever basketball ejection for me. Just looking for some feedback on whether I handled this correctly or if there are things I could have done differently.

Coach is complaining and yelling, of course, after the stop sign 1 min. earlier. Gets his first. I immediately go across court and partner starts administering FT's. Coach is still going nuts, yelling, "terrible!" and "awful!" I know that after giving the first, you should get away and your partner should come in and try to help out, but it all happened so fast, there was no window. He continues his loud tirade with "you suck" and he gets his second, from me as well.
I know I am justified by rule to whack him for that statement, but where my question really lies is, how much of a leash do some of you give to the coach AFTER a technical, because they are obviously upset. I took a few statements from him but that latter comment put me over my threshhold. Should I have waited for my partner to get it?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Flexbelt83

First ever basketball ejection for me. Just looking for some feedback on whether I handled this correctly or if there are things I could have done differently.

Coach is complaining and yelling, of course, after the stop sign 1 min. earlier. Gets his first. I immediately go across court and partner starts administering FT's. Coach is still going nuts, yelling, "terrible!" and "awful!" I know that after giving the first, you should get away and your partner should come in and try to help out, but it all happened so fast, there was no window. He continues his loud tirade with "you suck" and he gets his second, from me as well.
I know I am justified by rule to whack him for that statement, but where my question really lies is, how much of a leash do some of you give to the coach AFTER a technical, because they are obviously upset. I took a few statements from him but that latter comment put me over my threshhold. Should I have waited for my partner to get it?

In my opinion, you honored his request. Well done.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Flexbelt83

First ever basketball ejection for me. Just looking for some feedback on whether I handled this correctly or if there are things I could have done differently.

Coach is complaining and yelling, of course, after the stop sign 1 min. earlier. Gets his first. I immediately go across court and partner starts administering FT's. Coach is still going nuts, yelling, "terrible!" and "awful!" I know that after giving the first, you should get away and your partner should come in and try to help out, but it all happened so fast, there was no window. He continues his loud tirade with "you suck" and he gets his second, from me as well.
I know I am justified by rule to whack him for that statement, but where my question really lies is, how much of a leash do some of you give to the coach AFTER a technical, because they are obviously upset. I took a few statements from him but that latter comment put me over my threshhold. Should I have waited for my partner to get it?

Imho, you did right by issuing the first technical foul after you warned the coach.

When you said that you went across the court, I am assuming that you went to the division line, opposite side for the ensuing throw-in, which I am believe is the right thing to do given that this location is away from the coach.

After a coach gets a technical foul from me, I will let him continue for a short short period of time (about a couple of seconds perhaps). I consider this to be part of the ranting that earned him the first technical foul. However, it is often a feel thing.

Having said that, if you're going to issue a technical foul for accumlated bu11$h!t, you can diffuse the situation by waiting until the coach is done giving his tirade before you call the technical foul. (Or, almost done the tirade.)

This is opposite to calling the TF immediately, when the coach still has this fuming horns on. If the coach is still venting, then calling TF right away will only infuriate him more, possibly causing him to continue the tirade and more intense too. It looks weird, imho, if you T a guy right away, then let him go for another 10 seconds without a T. There's no diffusing element here.

I also think that your P should have had the 2nd TF. And don't be afraid to let him grab it if you have double whistles.

Edit: I saw this mechanic watching a college game. I have since used it twice (once in college and once for a HS game) and it worked like a charm both times. Coach is giving me the business verbally. I let a comment go to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he keeps going. I whistled the play dead, with no signal. Everyone is quiet, including said coach. I run to the foul reporting area. I signal technical foul on the tirade coach. He doesn't say a thing.

[iowa_official]

I agree!!! Some coaches will just push you enough to get the first one but then will shut up for the majority of the game.

I had one the other night that the coach was barking about something going against his team and how the other team was getting that call. Well after hearing it twice I was on table side and told him enough and gave him the stop sign. He said "prove it to me" in a very calm voice after the stop sign, personally I didn't have a problem with that one but then to bait me he started screaming it at the top of his lungs. Well he got wacked then.

He was very calm after this and he seemed to get it out of his system the first time. Granted his team was down at the time and you know the old saying that he did it to get his team fired up. Well they did com back to win, but he did also shut up after the T.

[JoeTheRef]

"You Suck" earns either his first or second regardless if the coach has been warned. Good job.

In regards to your partner, I usually pregame these atypical situations, and I'm expecting my partners to step up with that second whack, especially if I go opposite table, and I have a partner right in front of the coach or on that sideline. I know if I could hear that across court he darn should've heard it and handled it.

[Junker]

Sounds like an easy ejection. Nice job.

[JS 20]

only thing i would have done different would be to get together w/ my partner at half court after you issued the first T. At that point, your partner should have gone over to tell him he lost the coaching box and you should have been administering the FT's. That would have prevented you from giving both T's and plus i'm pretty sure it's how the manual says you should do it.

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by JS 20

only thing i would have done different would be to get together w/ my partner at half court after you issued the first T. At that point, your partner should have gone over to tell him he lost the coaching box and you should have been administering the FT's. That would have prevented you from giving both T's and plus i'm pretty sure it's how the manual says you should do it.

Good advice JS! I have been in the situation in a Freshman Boys game where I unfortunately T'd up the coach back to back. Had I worked better with my partner and took the FT's then I would not have been close enough to the coach to serve up the 2nd T.

[Back In The Saddle]

The only problem I have with how you handled it was....where was your partner? He should have had the second one for you.

I agree that after you give the first, you need to be prepared to let the coach vent a little, get it out of his system. But if he uses that extra bit of leash to escalate, to the point where you're hearing him clearly across the floor, he's abused the opportunity.

I know you're questioning whether there was anything you could have done better in this situation, but you simply cannot be responsible for a coach who chooses to compound bad behavior with worse behavior.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JS 20

only thing i would have done different would be to get together w/ my partner at half court after you issued the first T. At that point, your partner should have gone over to tell him he lost the coaching box and you should have been administering the FT's. That would have prevented you from giving both T's and plus i'm pretty sure it's how the manual says you should do it.

If the coach is still going off, I don't think there is anything to be gained by having the other official go address him. If I T a coach, I don't want or need my partner going over to him, lending him an ear, or trying to calm him down. In doing so the second official usually has to either listen to the coach berate his partner or may inadvertently escalate the situation. And at the end of the day, what is the second official actually hoping to accomplish? To calm the coach down? Make everything okay? It's not going to happen.

Better, IMHO, to leave the coach to his own devices at that moment. He knows he's lost his box. If he's still standing a couple plays later, then your partner can ask him to sit as he passes by during play.

As always, just my $0.02.

[Coltdoggs]

I do love what JugglingRef said about not issuing the first T right away, I will pocket that one in my mind for future use. That seems pretty logical when you slow it down and break it down...

Why is it that most feel the 2nd T needs to come from partner? Seriously, if the coach was out of line and got the first and then continued to carry on and I'm trying to allow my P to grab the second but he's not doing anything about it....do we just let the coach continue his rant or pop em again and get em the hell outta the gym?

I've worked with a few guys that just flat out refuse to give Ts no matter what is said and it's those guys that the coaches see and get the mindset that they can say anything and everything whenever they want.....I'd rather pull out the second, but I am going to be sure it's really obvious to the gym why I'm T-ing him/her up if I'm throwing the 2nd one as well.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I do love what JugglingRef said about not issuing the first T right away, I will pocket that one in my mind for future use. That seems pretty logical when you slow it down and break it down...

Why is it that most feel the 2nd T needs to come from partner? Seriously, if the coach was out of line and got the first and then continued to carry on and I'm trying to allow my P to grab the second but he's not doing anything about it....do we just let the coach continue his rant or pop em again and get em the hell outta the gym?

I've worked with a few guys that just flat out refuse to give Ts no matter what is said and it's those guys that the coaches see and get the mindset that they can say anything and everything whenever they want.....I'd rather pull out the second, but I am going to be sure it's really obvious to the gym why I'm T-ing him/her up if I'm throwing the 2nd one as well.

Exactly.

I want this T to come from my partner. It then appears less like one official has it out for the coach, it gives the non-calling official an opportunity to inject any additional restraint he may deem appropriate (if, for instance, he thought his partner gave the first one too quickly or for too minor an infraction), and it looks better in the report to the state. Those are all very subjective and idealistic reasons, and some will disagree with them.

But bottom line, if my P isn't going to take care of business, I will.

[Rich]

If the coach insists upon screaming "you suck" across the court after getting whacked, it really doesn't matter to me who calls it.

All this talk about not giving the second after giving the first applies to situations where it could actually look like someone had it out for the coach. However, when a coach screams "you suck" there should be someone standing in the door with the coach's coat and hat and the keys to the bus.

In a HS game in my world, the coach is going to get tossed on "you suck" regardless if it's direct technical 1 or 2.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I've worked with a few guys that just flat out refuse to give Ts no matter what is said and it's those guys that the coaches see and get the mindset that they can say anything and everything whenever they want.....I'd rather pull out the second, but I am going to be sure it's really obvious to the gym why I'm T-ing him/her up if I'm throwing the 2nd one as well.

Hell I would guesstimate that 75% of my partners need ,at a minimum, nothing less than a complete meltdown to even consider that the coaches behavior might be out of line.

So consequently I have to make the choice of whether to deal with it or stick my head in the sand. I chose to deal with it and have found I'm in the minority.

I usually have to give the first and second T's.

had one partner who gave the first T,it was like 12 seconds into the game. I definetly had the 2nd one if needed. It wasn't.