Way Too Many "Players" Warming Up

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Assuming the player wasn't on the playing team (JV Team). It still begs the question what if you do allow the varsity members to warm up with the JV team and a Varsity member dunks? How would you penalize it?

I'm thinking @ that time he isn't a player for that game. He's not going to be bench personnel either. So really he's nothing more then a fan @ that time.

Well, the book doesn't discuss this situation, so I'm looking at it this way. Coach is responsible for warm-ups. Whoever is on the floor is there with his permission either express or implicit. If that a var player dunks before a JV game, he can't get a T (unless, like MTD recommends you add the name to the JV book), so you just make it a team T, seatbelt the coach, and take it from there. This is what I've done in the past and my commissioner said it worked for him.

I don't think you can make game management responsible. What if it's the visiting team? WHen should game management step in and tell ... who?... to get off the court, or to not dunk? And if the visiting var player does dunk during the JV warm-ups, THEN how do you penalize??? Can't penalize home game management!!

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

A team is defined in rule 4-34. The people that you want to nail aren't part of the team. The head coach is responsible for bench personnel(10-4) also so you can't nail him. Anybody else is a "spectator" and home management is responsible for them. Rule 2-8-1NOTE. You can penalize a team's followers, but it generally isn't recommended.

Just go to home management and get them to remove everybody not connected to the team from the court.

There's old threads around on this one iirc.

Does this apply only when the non-team-members are dunking? If they're just hanging around, shooting around, etc, is that okay?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Call the T, coach A gets the seatbelt, team B starts the game with two shots and the ball, that's enough to get the coach yelling at those idiot varsity players, imo. Maybe next time he'll be paying more attention to what's happening on his own end of the court.

You recommend calling a team technical foul and you want to seatbelt the coach also?

Juulie, the head coach is responsible for his team. Game administration is responsible for everybody else. It's that simple.

[Gimlet25id]

I agree that if a V player dunks while the JV game is warming up that it stands to reason that we ought to penalize the BRAIN FART. That being said I don't know how in the world you can whack a non-player for the team that is going to play, add his name to the book, & penalize the coach.The varsity player isn't a team member of the JV team.

This is exactly why you shouldn't allow anyone but the team members to warm up.

Lets say for example the varsity player was suspended for a couple of games and was going to sit on the bench to help the JV squad then you could whack him as bench personnel and charge indirectly to the HC.

If its possible to rule like you have suggested could you please post the rule reference. Honestly I would like to penalize the idiot I just don't see how you can?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

There's old threads around on this one iirc.

yep, it was discussed about a year or two ago.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Come on MTD read the entire post. That was in response to Rainmakers post...that it doesn't matter if the dunker is a player. Its a little ABSURD to make a comment without reading the context of the entire post. (IMHO)



Assuming the player wasn't on the playing team (JV Team). It still begs the question what if you do allow the varsity members to warm up with the JV team and a Varsity member dunks? How would you penalize it?

I'm thinking @ that time he isn't a player for that game. He's not going to be bench personnel either. So really he's nothing more then a fan @ that time.

Gimlet:

I did read the entire post. And my quesiton to you still stands. By what logic do you come to the conlusion that Game Management is resposible for the VAR players warming up with the JV players? There is no logic and you just made a statement that you thought would CYA so that you wouldn't have to earn the big bucks you are being paid to officiate the game.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Does this apply only when the non-team-members are dunking? If they're just hanging around, shooting around, etc, is that okay?

Get game management to deal with 'em. That's their responsibility.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You recommend calling a team technical foul and you want to seatbelt the coach also?

Juulie, the head coach is responsible for his team. Game administration is responsible for everybody else. It's that simple.

Well, with a team T, don't you have to give the seatbelt?

Hhmmm, I'll take that up with my commish. I've been told differently. I just don't see how home management can be responsible for visiting varsity players. And again I ask, are the var players allowed, as long as they don't break the rules?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Gimlet:

I did read the entire post. And my quesiton to you still stands. By what logic do you come to the conlusion that Game Management is resposible for the VAR players warming up with the JV players? There is no logic and you just made a statement that you thought would CYA so that you wouldn't have to earn the big bucks you are being paid to officiate the game.

MTD, Sr.

If we do this right, Gimlet, you and I can duck out and have a tall one while MTD and JR duke it out. Agreed?

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

Coach is responsible for warm-ups. Whoever is on the floor is there with his permission either express or implicit.

What if a fan comes out of the stands, picks up a ball and dunks it? Your whacking the coach, adding the fan to the book (just kidding), sitting the coach...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

By what logic do you come to the conlusion that Game Management is resposible for the VAR players warming up with the JV players?

I came to the samee conclusion. They ain't part of the team, as defined in 4-34. They aren't the head coach's responsibility, as per 10-4. That leaves 2-8-1NOTE--"team followers or supporters".

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If we do this right, Gimlet, you and I can duck out and have a tall one while MTD and JR duke it out. Agreed?

Coors works for me...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If we do this right, Gimlet, you and I can duck out and have a tall one while MTD and JR duke it out. Agreed?

Why are you leaving poor ol' Mark by his lonesome? You agree with him, don't you?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Are you going anywhere? I disagree completely with you too.

I know you do. I"m just saying, I'm gonna go look in my books, think about it and get back to you. Let MTD do the arguing. Gotta admit, agreeing with MTD doesn't feel real comfortable, and disagreeing with you doesn't either. SO I'll let ya'll figure it out, and then Gimlet and I will check back in for the Supreme COurt ruling. K?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I agree that if a V player dunks while the JV game is warming up that it stands to reason that we ought to penalize the BRAIN FART.

I don't. Just get game management to get them off the court.

There...now I disagree with everybody.