Where is your focus?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Yup. And after 5 pages of discussion and my personal experience last night, I'm convinced more than ever that my response in post #4 of this thread is exactly correct.

Nobody said watch only the players...just watch them mostly and glance at the ball at the points where an issue might occur. There will be no BI/GT if no players jump up near the rim. If you're watching the players for rebounding, yoiu'll know when they jump and from where they jump....and thats about all you need to know if a contact with the ball is GT. Time the flight of the ball and look up when it gets to the rim to see it go in or bounce up high enough to matter. If neither, return to players.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Nobody said watch only the players...just watch them mostly and glance at the ball at the points where an issue might occur.

How about just watch the ball, since that's your primary coverage and trust your partner to watch the players, since that's his/her primary coverage?

Last night has convinced me that anybody who says otherwise is simply overthinking. The title of the thread is "where is your focus?" The trail's focus is the flight of the ball. The lead's focus is the rebounding players.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

How about just watch the ball, since that's your primary coverage and trust your partner to watch the players, since that's his/her primary coverage?

Last night has convinced me that anybody who says otherwise is simply overthinking. The title of the thread is "where is your focus?" The trail's focus is the flight of the ball. The lead's focus is the rebounding players.

Ding, ding. This is the winner.

[Dan_ref]

How come I'm never the winner in these things...?

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

How about just watch the ball, since that's your primary coverage and trust your partner to watch the players, since that's his/her primary coverage?

Last night has convinced me that anybody who says otherwise is simply overthinking. The title of the thread is "where is your focus?" The trail's focus is the flight of the ball. The lead's focus is the rebounding players.

From trail position, the ball is not the primary coverage it is one thing of many that must be covered...

Trail always has perimeter and weakside rebounds. lead has strong side and is guessing pretty bad if calls anything more. Lead is not going to see weakside rebound fouls especially from behind. That is trail's call pure and simple.


I would suggest that if you cant watch perimeter and weakside rebounding, he players jumping near the rim, and the ball, your position on the court may be too close. or you are too focused on the ball. Trail has to multi-task...

I went to a camp a few years ago, one of the clinicians made a statement in the camp that has stuck with me... the weight of the world is on trail's shoulders. He was right Trail has a ton of responsibility on the floor in a two person game.

If you think about it lead has an area of about 400-600 sq ft (sorry not a math major) on the floor. Trail has 3500 plus sq ft

You gotta be in a position to call what you need to call. Watching the flight of the ball from shooter to basket, especially when shot was not out of your primary just does not work. if you watch the flight of the ball from hands to basket it means you were not watching your primary in the first place. If you use your peripheral vision you know when shots go up...

If it is from primary you have to make sure shooter does not get decked. get the rebounding action and go to the ball to ensure that other stuff doesnt happen. It can be done with some work... but focusing on the ball all the way is asking for trouble.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

From trail position, the ball is not the primary coverage it is one thing of many that must be covered...

Obviously, I'm going to disagree with this. (You already knew that if you read the rest of the thread. ) Yes, the Trail is responsible for lots of stuff. But in my very humble opinion, based on years of training -- not to mention my experience last week -- the flight of the ball is the PRIMARY responsibility of the Trail official.

The thread now moves into "No it isn't", "Yes, it is", "No, it isn't" territory, so I think I'll probably just excuse myself from this point on with the realization that different things work for different people. Leaving the ball early doesn't work for me. :shrug:

[tomegun]

Couldn't all these things happen fast enough that there are multiple primary things to look at?

Some random thoughts...

Has it really been that long since I've done two-man? Kelvin, I don't understand how you can say Lead is strong side and Trail is weak side unless you work in a system where Lead crosses the lane in two man. Is that the case? If not, don't the players and the play dictate this?

Are you guys saying you literally watch the flight of the ball? This is something that happens fast, but the only time I've ever heard of this is when I read where Reggie Miller watched the flight of his shots. Other than that, I don't know. If I shoot a ball I'm not watching the flight of the ball, I direct my attention to the hoop hoping it isn't one of those rare occasions where I miss. Depending on the depth of the Trail and the location of the shooter, can't we have all of this within our view? If the shot clanks off the rim and goes up, obviously experience will tell us to check to see if it hits anything. I analyze many things, but I guess this isn't one of them up until now.
How many of those saying watch the flight of the ball have called a rebounding foul from Trail, before the ball has hit the rim? Actually, I'm not sure calling that a rebounding foul is accurate. These are often plays where a player gets pushed/pulled totally out of rebounding position.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The thread now moves into "No it isn't", "Yes, it is", "No, it isn't" territory,

No it doesn't

so I think I'll probably just excuse myself from this point on with the realization that different things work for different people.

Me too

Leaving the ball early doesn't work for me. :shrug:

Me either.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Obviously, I'm going to disagree with this. (You already knew that if you read the rest of the thread. ) Yes, the Trail is responsible for lots of stuff. But in my very humble opinion, based on years of training -- not to mention my experience last week -- the flight of the ball is the PRIMARY responsibility of the Trail official.

At the risk of extreme ridicule, I'm going to say that I really can't believe this is the hard and fast rule for all situations. In a JV girls' game where there are no guy wires, there's just no reason to follow the flight of the ball, and lots of reasons to be watching top-side action.

You do lots and lots and lots of upper level boys and men's games, and for your level it makes sense to do it your way. Maybe every gym in your area has guy wires. So your rule works for you.

Around here only about half the gyms even have those wires there, and I've only done maybe 10 games where there was any play at all above the rim. On the other hand, I"ll have at least one foul while the ball is in the air for a shot almost every game. If I miss the occasional (once or twice a year?) maybe-it-hit-the-wire, well, yea, I missed it. But if I miss that shove in the back, that sweeping arm to get position ofr the rebound, then there's some royally mad players now looking for blood.

I'm not ignoring the ball entirely, but when the shot goes up, I decide in a hurry how much to be glancing at the flight, and much to be not really looking. And btw, I'm not watching shoelaces. I'm seeing backside action when there are 8 or 10 players in the key. I watching to see whatever lead can't because of crowding.

On the other hand, next year when I'm getting some boys' varsity games, and I might be seeing some play above the rim, I'll be seeing more of the ball, too. based on your recommendation, Scrappy, Dan and others.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

At the risk of extreme ridicule, I'm going to say that I really can't believe this is the hard and fast rule for all situations. In a JV girls' game where there are no guy wires, there's just no reason to follow the flight of the ball, and lots of reasons to be watching top-side action.

You do lots and lots and lots of upper level boys and men's games, and for your level it makes sense to do it your way. Maybe every gym in your area has guy wires. So your rule works for you.

Around here only about half the gyms even have those wires there, and I've only done maybe 10 games where there was any play at all above the rim. On the other hand, I"ll have at least one foul while the ball is in the air for a shot almost every game. If I miss the occasional (once or twice a year?) maybe-it-hit-the-wire, well, yea, I missed it. But if I miss that shove in the back, that sweeping arm to get position ofr the rebound, then there's some royally mad players now looking for blood.

I'm not ignoring the ball entirely, but when the shot goes up, I decide in a hurry how much to be glancing at the flight, and much to be not really looking. And btw, I'm not watching shoelaces. I'm seeing backside action when there are 8 or 10 players in the key. I watching to see whatever lead can't because of crowding.

Can't we all agree that this part of Juulie's post is a pretty darn good example of what really happens on these plays and the fact that it is determined by what level of play you have?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Can't we all agree that this part of Juulie's post is a pretty darn good example of what really happens on these plays and the fact that it is determined by what level of play you have?

Hey, I'm a uniter, not a divider!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Nobody said watch only the players...just watch them mostly and glance at the ball at the points where an issue might occur. There will be no BI/GT if no players jump up near the rim. If you're watching the players for rebounding, yoiu'll know when they jump and from where they jump....and thats about all you need to know if a contact with the ball is GT. Time the flight of the ball and look up when it gets to the rim to see it go in or bounce up high enough to matter. If neither, return to players.

Ding, ding. This is the winner. There's no reason to watch the full flight of the ball. I've studied parabolas, so I know how the ball will fly.

Besides, if I'm watching the flight of the ball all the way, who's taking the shooter all the way to the ground?

So watch the shooter, look at the rebounding, and get the money shots on the ball -- BI/GT, supports, then rebounding action again.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Besides, if I'm watching the flight of the ball all the way, who's taking the shooter all the way to the ground?

You are, if he's in your primary.

1. shooter
2. ball
3. rebounding off the miss

Go back & read the rest of the thread

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You are, if he's in your primary.

1. shooter
2. ball
3. rebounding off the miss

Go back & read the rest of the thread

I've read it all, much as I can stand. It's simply boring me to read the same things over and over again.

You folks sit and watch the ball flutter towards the hoop and I'll simply work the way I always have.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I've read it all, much as I can stand. It's simply boring me to read the same things over and over again.

You folks sit and watch the ball flutter towards the hoop and I'll simply work the way I always have.

Works for me.