Just Wondering ....

[SmokeEater]

If there is a rule support for the following or if this could have been handled a different way.

GV game 3 second to go and the score tied at 54. Ball is inbounded by red and immediately stolen by white in offensive zone. Ball is passed to team mate under the basket who scores. Problem is the timer forgot to start the clock! Whistle, conference. What are my options?

Looking for any rule set answers but understand we play under FIBA here. I thing the rules would be similar anywhere in this situation.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

If there is a rule support for the following or if this could have been handled a different way.

GV game 3 second to go and the score tied at 54. Ball is inbounded by red and immediately stolen by white in offensive zone. Ball is passed to team mate under the basket who scores. Problem is the timer forgot to start the clock! Whistle, conference. What are my options?

Looking for any rule set answers but understand we play under FIBA here. I thing the rules would be similar anywhere in this situation.

I didn't know that Toddy D worked the clock!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

If there is a rule support for the following or if this could have been handled a different way.

GV game 3 second to go and the score tied at 54. Ball is inbounded by red and immediately stolen by white in offensive zone. Ball is passed to team mate under the basket who scores. Problem is the timer forgot to start the clock! Whistle, conference. What are my options?

Looking for any rule set answers but understand we play under FIBA here. I thing the rules would be similar anywhere in this situation.

If this were a Fed situation, I would acknowledge and accept that a timing mistake had occurred, then give Red the ball for an end line throw-in with 3 seconds still on the clock and the score 56-54 in favor of White.

That's what the rules say to do.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If this were a Fed situation, I would acknowledge and accept that a timing mistake had occurred, then give Red the ball for an end line throw-in with 3 seconds still on the clock and the score 56-54 in favor of White.

That's what the rules say to do.

Unless the L-to-T started a backcourt count when white stole the ball. Then you could take however many seconds were counted off the clock...or if anyone started a count for any reason that would be true.

[SmokeEater]

I agree with you Nevada, and thats what I would have done as well. We had the basket wiped and went to OT. White ended up winning by 6 anyway. It was a very good game to be at. I actually was just an observer for this one but wondered if it was handled correctly.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Unless the L-to-T started a backcourt count when white stole the ball. Then you could take however many seconds were counted off the clock...or if anyone started a count for any reason that would be true.

No need for a count, it was in white frontcourt. I do acknowledge that it felt like 3 seconds had passed or it was darn close.

[Ref_in_Alberta]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

If there is a rule support for the following or if this could have been handled a different way.

GV game 3 second to go and the score tied at 54. Ball is inbounded by red and immediately stolen by white in offensive zone. Ball is passed to team mate under the basket who scores. Problem is the timer forgot to start the clock! Whistle, conference. What are my options?

Looking for any rule set answers but understand we play under FIBA here. I thing the rules would be similar anywhere in this situation.

Smoke,

At any time if you have definate knowledge of a timing error you can adjust the clock accordingly. Therefore if you knew for sure (100%) that this play took more then 3 seconds, wave the basket off, explain the reasoning and the game goes to OT. FIBA rules, start the OT with AP.

If you do not have definate knowledge, well that's a whole 'nother can of worms...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I agree with you Nevada, and thats what I would have done as well. We had the basket wiped and went to OT.

If you agreed with Nevada, you wouldn't have wiped the basket.

There is no rules backing to wipe the play under NFHS rules.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I actually was just an observer for this one but wondered if it was handled correctly.

Hey JR???

[SmokeEater]

Thanks for the backup Nevada, I am sure that JR did not mean to erroniously point out something without doing the very thing he preaches to others about. Fully read the whole post then make a reply. "Jokes intended here"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Thanks for the backup Nevada, I am sure that JR did not mean to erroniously point out something without doing the very thing he preaches to others about. Fully read the whole post then make a reply. "Jokes intended here"

You said "we" had the basket wiped out. I took the wrong inference from "we".

[BillyMac]

This is why officials should keep a mental count near the very end of a game, even if we aren't counting ten seconds, five seconds, or three seconds, as the rules demand in those specific situations, at least we will have some type of definite knowledge.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

If there is a rule support for the following or if this could have been handled a different way.

GV game 3 second to go and the score tied at 54. Ball is inbounded by red and immediately stolen by white in offensive zone. Ball is passed to team mate under the basket who scores. Problem is the timer forgot to start the clock! Whistle, conference. What are my options?

Looking for any rule set answers but understand we play under FIBA here. I thing the rules would be similar anywhere in this situation.

Under FIBA rules there is no concept of "definite knowledge" to help officials put or remove time from the clock.

44.2.10 Any errors in scorekeeping by the scorer or time-keeping by the timer involving the score, number of fouls, number of time-outs or time consumed or omitted, may be corrected by the officials at any time before the referee signs the scoresheet.

46.13 [The referee shall] have the power to make decisions on any point not specifically covered by these rules.

So, if you are sure that time has expired, because you have made a mental count, you can decide the game is over.

Ciao

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

So, if you are sure that time has expired, because you have made a mental count, you can decide the game is over.

Very bad idea.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Very bad idea.

Is your concern with the fact that no visible count was used, or that there is no reason to count in this situation, other than a reason to fix an unstarted clock error? Or something else?