Did I mess this one up?

[Texas Aggie]

I don't think 9.2.2.c speaks to THIS situation: that of a confused player but rather of a situation of a team trying to gain an advantage. The casebook said the player with the ball "makes a move toward the end line as though" he's going to make a throw in from OOB.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

So this is a violation according to NFHS? WOW! That is unbelieveable! Kid never steps out of bounds to attempt the throw-in (he might just have a brain fart since he is young) and it's a violation? That is horrible!!! If I have that happen in any of my high school games I will take full responsibility for the play. They can fine me, sue me, take my game check, whatever. That is not what is right for the game. Common sense should prevail here.

I'm sorry that I missed that according to rule and don't want young guys on here not knowing the rules, but there are some times that you need to step up and gain a Crew Chief mentality and ask yourself, "Is it right for the game", because the integrity of the game is what you are trying to protect. Are you protecting it by a kid making a silly mistake by not stepping out of bounds for a throw-in when he hasn't even legally stepped out of bounds to be awarded the chance to make a throw-in? I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.

BTaylor:

Sorry to sink your boat, BUT common sense has nothing to do with this play only logic and the rules of the game prevail here. The rules state was must be done by Team B after Team A has scored. Too bad that B1 did not follow the rules. What is good for the integrity of the game in this case is to enforce the rules.

By the way, this is also a violation under NCAA Men's/Women's and FIBA rules.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Good night all.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I don't think 9.2.2.c speaks to THIS situation: that of a confused player but rather of a situation of a team trying to gain an advantage. The casebook said the player with the ball "makes a move toward the end line as though" he's going to make a throw in from OOB.

Texa Aggie:

See my post above.

MTD, Sr.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I'm sorry that I missed that according to rule and don't want young guys on here not knowing the rules, but there are some times that you need to step up and gain a Crew Chief mentality and ask yourself, "Is it right for the game", because the integrity of the game is what you are trying to protect. Are you protecting it by a kid making a silly mistake by not stepping out of bounds for a throw-in when he hasn't even legally stepped out of bounds to be awarded the chance to make a throw-in? I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.

The Crew Chief mentality is to enforce the rules as agreed upon by the various state organizations in submitting to the NFHS. What's good for the game is to do what you're told to do and what you agreed to do when you signed up to be a ref.

What's NOT good for the game or for the kids or for anyone else involved is to just do whatever you happen to think seems like "common sense" regardless of what has been decided by the appointed, elected authoritative body. That's just plain asinine.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

By the way, this is also a violation under NCAA Men's/Women's and FIBA rules.

I don't think it's a violation under FIBA rules. Indeed, in the OP's situation, we are taught to kill the play and resume it with a correct throw-in from behind the endline.

Ciao

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

So this is a violation according to NFHS? WOW! That is unbelieveable! Kid never steps out of bounds to attempt the throw-in (he might just have a brain fart since he is young) and it's a violation? That is horrible!!! If I have that happen in any of my high school games I will take full responsibility for the play. They can fine me, sue me, take my game check, whatever. That is not what is right for the game. Common sense should prevail here.

I'm sorry that I missed that according to rule and don't want young guys on here not knowing the rules, but there are some times that you need to step up and gain a Crew Chief mentality and ask yourself, "Is it right for the game", because the integrity of the game is what you are trying to protect. Are you protecting it by a kid making a silly mistake by not stepping out of bounds for a throw-in when he hasn't even legally stepped out of bounds to be awarded the chance to make a throw-in? I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.

I actually thought that you were finally starting to get it, Ben. Unfortunately, I was wrong. As usual, you still won't bother learning basic rules. You refuse to try and understand why those basic rules were implemented too. It's not a matter of young guys not knowing the rules; it's a matter of a so-called official not knowing the rules, and then after being informed of the correct rule, arguing that it shouldn't be called that way and he's not going to. That's completely wrong for any official, at any age. Wrong and stoopid..

When did it become up to you to decide what rules you feel like enforcing? A definitive case play was issued. You didn't know that the case play existed. That's very telling. Hardly new but still telling. And it's even more telling when you state that you're going to ignore that definitive case play. Throwing in phrases like "crew chief mentality" and "protecting the integrity of the game" is absolutely ridiculous when you don't know the basics of officiating. Just because you heard those terms at some camp and you can now mindlessly regurgitate them here doesn't mean that you actually understand what those terms mean. You can't protect the integrity of the game by deliberately ignoring the rules of the game. It's very obvious that you don't have a clue what they're trying to teach you.

Maybe one day, some of this might make some sense to you. I've got my doubts though. Hopefully, other young officials reading this will learn something, even though it looks like you never will.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

The Crew Chief mentality is to enforce the rules as agreed upon by the various state organizations in submitting to the NFHS. What's good for the game is to do what you're told to do and what you agreed to do when you signed up to be a ref.

What's NOT good for the game or for the kids or for anyone else involved is to just do whatever you happen to think seems like "common sense" regardless of what has been decided by the appointed, elected authoritative body. That's just plain asinine.

I couldn't have written it better.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

By the way, this is also a violation under NCAA Men's/Women's

Are you sure? Rule please?

[JS 20]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sure at this point that I got it right. As I said in my second post in this thread, what if the defenseive team had fouled the ball handler? Then I have to penalize them with a foul when the ball wasn't correctly inbounded? Seems to me the offense is the one the goofed. Doesn't seem fair not to penalize them.

I'm glad I called it the way I did. I think calling it the way I did is "the best thing for the game" or whatever b/c I made them adhere to the rules and that's the best thing for the game.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

So this is a violation according to NFHS? WOW! That is unbelieveable!

way before your time on this board, there was a lengthy discussion on this play. The options were:

1) Wait 5-seconds, and then call a violation
2) Bring A back and have them attempt the throw-in from OOB
3) Immediate violation.

Each of those options had strong support, from different "well-respected" members. Nothing in FED made it clear which was corrrect.

The next year, FED came out with the ruling that the grand prize was behind door number 3. :shrug: SO, that's the rule. You can disagree with it, but you should enforce it, imo.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

So this is a violation according to NFHS? WOW! That is unbelieveable! Kid never steps out of bounds to attempt the throw-in (he might just have a brain fart since he is young) and it's a violation? That is horrible!!! If I have that happen in any of my high school games I will take full responsibility for the play. They can fine me, sue me, take my game check, whatever. That is not what is right for the game. Common sense should prevail here.

I'm sorry that I missed that according to rule and don't want young guys on here not knowing the rules, but there are some times that you need to step up and gain a Crew Chief mentality and ask yourself, "Is it right for the game", because the integrity of the game is what you are trying to protect. Are you protecting it by a kid making a silly mistake by not stepping out of bounds for a throw-in when he hasn't even legally stepped out of bounds to be awarded the chance to make a throw-in? I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.

I empathize with your "is it right for the game". This however, is when we get in trouble. Through this board I've learned to follow the rules, that's why I have stripes on. if I don't adhere to them, I'm no better than the fan yelling "c'mon, let 'em play".

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by fullor30

if I don't adhere to them, I'm no better than the fan yelling "c'mon, let 'em play".

Yup, and that's really, really low!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I empathize with your "is it right for the game". This however, is when we get in trouble. Through this board I've learned to follow the rules, that's why I have stripes on.

Can you imagine a D1 or NBA official ignoring a definitive rule or AR just because he personally thought that the call wasn't right for the game? His azz would be back in the rec leagues before it was completely dry from his post-game shower.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Can you imagine a D1 or NBA official ignoring a definitive rule or AR just because he personally thought that the call wasn't right for the game?

You mean like................traveling?

[bgtg19]

Even though I disagree with btaylor64's point of view here - hey, there is a clear ruling from the NFHS - I write to make two observations:

(1) JR, you were out of line, in my opinion, to go needlessly personal. Just as you would like him to learn from his mistakes, I'm pointing this out so that you will have the opportunity to learn from your mistake. You're welcome.

(2) I think we have to acknowledge that it is difficult to know when and where this just-enforce-the-rules mandate comes into contact with the don't-be-overly-officious-there-is-such-a-thing-as-advantage/disadvantage approach. It is O.K. to remind each other that we should just enforce the rules as written -- that this is the way we best protect/serve the game -- but then we've got to figure out a sensible way to communicate how/why calling the obvious illegal dribble ("palming") violation when there is no pressure and no advantage gained is wrong....

For what it is worth, I think responding to a clear NFHS ruling is a good place to start!