Partner tosses coach in first minute of game!

[Mark Padgett]

I helped out a friend by taking an 8th grade girls elite (top competitive level) game at the last minute last night. My partner was someone new to me, but he called a very good game overall.

With only about 45 seconds gone in the game, I was waiting for a girl to retrieve the ball which had gone into the next court so we could have a throw-in. I was on the corner of the side line and the end line diagonally opposite the visitor's bench. I heard my partner blow his whistle and turned around to see him giving a T to the visiting coach and then making the "you're outta here" signal. The coach just stared, then picked up his stuff and walked out. I went over to my partner to get the skinny.

Apparently he heard the coach say very loudly to one of his players, "The next time she pushes you, punch her right in the mouth until she stops."

My partner said that qualified as flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct, since the coach was directing a player to physically assault another player.

I said, "ooooo kay" and just let it pass.

What do you guys think?

[Smitty]

I think he did absolutely the right thing.

[Gimlet25id]

Well I must say I have never heard of anything remotely close to this, unbelievable. I certainly would see why someone would want a individual like this out of their game. By the letter of the law (sort of speak)I just can't find where the rules support a Flagrant Technical for his comments.

In a 8th grade game, why not. If its a varsity game I just don't think the rules support it. Whack him!!! Let him know why loud enough for the players to hear. Let the players know anything close to a punch being thrown would be ejection from this game and they would have to sit the next.

He can't be charged for fighting or leaving the bench during a fight. Which would be the only Flagrant Technical options. Fighting being defined in Rule 4-18

Art. 1 An attempt to strike, punch or kick an opponent with a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.

Art.2 An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act TOWARD an opponent that CAUSES AN OPPONENT TO RETALIATE BY FIGHTING.
IMO I think your only option here is to tag him with the following...

FED Rule 10-4 Bench Technicals Art 1 c. Using profane or inappropriate language or obscene gestures.

[kbilla]

I think 4.19.4 has you covered

Art. 4... A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent or savage nature, or a technical noncontact foul which displays unacceptable conduct. It may or may not be intentional. If personal, it involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or noncontact at any time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct. Fighting is a flagrant act.

This is certainly unacceptable and you could argue that it is extreme...fighting is a flagrant act, but not the only flagrant act...

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by kbilla

I think 4.19.4 has you covered

Art. 4... A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent or savage nature, or a technical noncontact foul which displays unacceptable conduct. It may or may not be intentional. If personal, it involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or noncontact at any time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct. Fighting is a flagrant act.

This is certainly unacceptable and you could argue that it is extreme...fighting is a flagrant act, but not the only flagrant act...

I see your point and maybe this would be the right argument. IMHO.. This is still penalized under Bench Technicals which doesn't have a provision for the flagrant "T" unless fighting is involved.

The rule specifically says, "fighting." It didn't say fighting or extreme act. I think we have to look under 4-19-5 d., Since the coach is a non player, and we are penalizing his actions.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I see your point and maybe this would be the right argument. IMHO.. This is still penalized under Bench Technicals which doesn't have a provision for the flagrant "T" unless fighting is involved.

The rule specifically says, "fighting." It didn't say fighting or extreme act. Rule 4-19-4 IMO is defining extreme acts... as fighting.

In this case, I don't care what the rule books say. I'm not reffing a game with a guy like that in the gym, if I know about it. Either he goes, or I go. Period.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

If nothing else, penalize this with a flagrant using 2-3-1.

[rockyroad]

Hmmm. I don't have my rule books here, but doesn't the definition of a flagrant technical include a comment about "extreme conduct"? I would certainly classify what this coach said as extreme and have no real issue with the partner tossing him...I would also have been fine with the partner just whacking him and telling him it better not happen again...

Mark, where was this team from? I ask because my oldest brother is coaching his daughter's 8th grade team (they live in Amity) and - unfortunately - this really sounds exactly like something he would tell my niece.

[rainmaker]

Speaking as a parent, I would certainly hope someone would toss the guy, report him to the authorities and get him suspended from coaching. That kind of talk has no place in any work with youth of any kind. Even when a dad is telling his kid to stick up for him or her self, you don't do it by punching someone who bumps you. And it's never, never funny.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Mark, where was this team from? I ask because my oldest brother is coaching his daughter's 8th grade team (they live in Amity) and - unfortunately - this really sounds exactly like something he would tell my niece.

Nope, it wasn't him. This was a Portland area team. BTW - if this had happened in my local kids rec league, this guy would have been suspended for life - or longer!

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Nope, it wasn't him. This was a Portland area team. BTW - if this had happened in my local kids rec league, this guy would have been suspended for life - or longer!

Whew, glad to hear it. Now I don't have to call Mom and Dad!!

[Tio]

I would have talked to the coach before giving him the hook. I agree that we can't have those type of instructions being issued by a coach. I think he could have given a direct T and gotten out of it just fine too. Either way, I am sure this coach learned a lesson.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Being that the coach left without a peep, he meant it in the harshest way and he knew it.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Well I must say I have never heard of anything remotely close to this, unbelievable. I certainly would see why someone would want a individual like this out of their game. By the letter of the law (sort of speak)I just can't find where the rules support a Flagrant Technical for his comments.

In a 8th grade game, why not. If its a varsity game I just don't think the rules support it. Whack him!!! Let him know why loud enough for the players to hear. Let the players know anything close to a punch being thrown would be ejection from this game and they would have to sit the next.

He can't be charged for fighting or leaving the bench during a fight. Which would be the only Flagrant Technical options. Fighting being defined in Rule 4-18

Art. 1 An attempt to strike, punch or kick an opponent with a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.

Art.2 An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act TOWARD an opponent that CAUSES AN OPPONENT TO RETALIATE BY FIGHTING.
IMO I think your only option here is to tag him with the following...

FED Rule 10-4 Bench Technicals Art 1 c. Using profane or inappropriate language or obscene gestures.

Sure the rules support the official's actions in the OP, whether it is an 8th grade game, H.S. varisty game, or a Div. I game. This kind of conduct should never (my apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley; my 2nd apology of the day to J. Dallas) be condoned. If anybody complained I would back my partner up all the way to hell and back.

MTD, Sr.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Sure the rules support the official's actions in the OP, whether it is an 8th grade game, H.S. varisty game, or a Div. I game. This kind of conduct should never (my apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley; my 2nd apology of the day to J. Dallas) be condoned. If anybody complained I would backed my partner up all of the way to hell and back.

MTD, Sr.

No matter what I would back my partner up!!!

NEVER, NEVER leave your WINGMAN!!!!

I can see in a 8th grade game, MAYBE in a Varsity game, but not @ all in any level NCAA game. ( I don't think this would ever happen @ the High school Varsity or NCAA levels anyway.)

If I eject a coach for a comment they made to a player I'm losing games. It's not nothing @ the DI level to hear coaches dropping the "F" bomb to their players. (Could be defined as vulgar language)

As I said I don't have a problem with tossing this 8th grade coach. Hopefully the officials turned him in and he's done coaching. My part in this discussion was to make sure we were supported in the rule book. Maybe it could be maybe it isn't.

IMO I'm not ejecting a coach for the comment @ the Varsity or NCAA level. I'm "WHACKING," making sure everyone understands why, talking to my partners & playing on.