QF1Y: Mechanics Question Lead/Trail

[FrankHtown]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And that's good because... you've tried to please a coach?
Any official who makes a call should be sure of the call. Any official who is unsure should be seeking help and NOT making a call. Hence if my partner makes a call, he must be sure, and therefore why would I want to go stick my nose in his business?

I'm lead...I see Defender's backside from across the paint. Pass comes in..ball goes out of bounds. I'm sure it was a bad pass by the offense. I call it out off offense. What I didn't see was the defender's hand reach in and touch the ball, which the Trail saw clearly.

I guess in Nevada the players always arrange themselves so the officials always have perfect sight lines. I need to move there.

[Splute]

I agree. If my partner saw the deflection that I didnt see, I want to know. You get some indication by the reaction of the players too. Your partner sharing what he sees helps get the ball to the correct team. I am not offended or embarassed by my co-official sharing this info. Yes Nevada I only offer this for OOB situations where we are encouraged to assist our partners. It is still their call. Fouls and other infractions we live and die by them and discuss we each other at our first opportunity as what was seen or why specifically called. This too builds trust.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Splute

I agree. If my partner saw the deflection that I didnt see, I want to know. You get some indication by the reaction of the players too. Your partner sharing what he sees helps get the ball to the correct team. I am not offended or embarassed by my co-official sharing this info. Yes Nevada I only offer this for OOB situations where we are encouraged to assist our partners. It is still their call. Fouls and other infractions we live and die by them and discuss we each other at our first opportunity as what was seen or why specifically called. This too builds trust.

And I am probing the logic behind that. Why come in and help with OOB, but do nothing when a partner calls a foul?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And I am probing the logic behind that. Why come in and help with OOB, but do nothing when a partner calls a foul?

B/C the level of subjectivity with a foul is about 10X that of an OOB call and depends so much more on what look you had at the play. Which is why we say don't come in with help if you just "think" you saw it, come in if you have definite knowledge of something...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kbilla

B/C the level of subjectivity with a foul is about 10X that of an OOB call and depends so much more on what look you had at the play.

That's a very reasonable answer.

Now let's push the envelope and inquire whether anyone would attempt to "help" their partner when he has obviously kicked a call on a play that was directly in front of you (well within your PCA) and despite you being 100% sure that there was no foul on the play, your partner has called one.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And I am probing the logic behind that. Why come in and help with OOB, but do nothing when a partner calls a foul?

On a foul, the official should have the "entire play".

On an OOB call, the official might only have part of the play -- that is the ball can come from one area and go out on another.

So -- why not ask for help all the time? Because 99% (SWAG) of the time seeing just part of the play is sufficient. So, make the call and then have the partner provide help.

Yes, there are other ways to do it. But, by tradition, this way has been decreed to be "best" for the game.

[BillyMac]

This is always part of my pregame:

For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. Come together for a change if needed. If I have no idea and I look to
you for help, just give a directional signal. No need to come to me. Just point. If I signal but I get it wrong,
then blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

I'm lead...I see Defender's backside from across the paint. Pass comes in..ball goes out of bounds. I'm sure it was a bad pass by the offense. I call it out off offense. What I didn't see was the defender's hand reach in and touch the ball, which the Trail saw clearly.

I guess in Nevada the players always arrange themselves so the officials always have perfect sight lines. I need to move there.

No, Frank, in Nevada the Lead blows his whistle and asks his partner for help instead of signalling a direction for the OOB when looking at a player's backside and is unable to see the ball the entire way.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No, Frank, in Nevada the Lead blows his whistle and asks his partner for help instead of signalling a direction for the OOB when looking at a player's backside and is unable to see the ball the entire way.

Come on though Nevada, there are times when you are 100% certain that you have the correct call and there is something that you just didn't see. If it has never happened to you then you are either that good or that lucky, b/c every pregame that I have been a part of has included this statement made either by me or whoever is the R - "If I make an OOB call and you see something that you are 100% certain of that is contrary to my call, come in and tell me. I'll consider it, but I will always change my own call" IMO it looks better to make a call and then change it maybe what - once every second or third game that this comes up, than it does to be constantly looking for help when you were probably right in the first place.