Buddy calls with rules question

[Mark Padgett]

A buddy called me this morning about a call he had in a kids game last night. NF rules. After a violation by team B, A1 to inbound on the side. While the inbound pass is in the air, A2 and B2 foul each other for a double foul. The AP arrow is with team B. Should they give the ball to team B for an AP throw-in or use POI and give it back to team A even though there is no team control during a throw-in?

His point was that if they used the AP arrow, it seemed like they were penalizing team A for a foul that was equally caused by both teams.

What would you have told him?

[jdw3018]

The POI is the throw-in, as it hadn't yet ended. Therefore, I'm giving the ball back to A to inbound due to the original violation.

[mkiogima]

I'm probably wrong, but without any references right off hand, I would have told him the throw-in doesn't end until the ball is touched inbounds. The fouls were committed before the throw-in had ended.

Like I said, I'm probably wrong but oh well.

*Darn it, he beat me by a minute.

[tjones1]

Sounds like the throw-in hadn't ended. Therefore, I think you've got to go AP.

[M&M Guy]

Why does team control matter on a double foul?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Why does team control matter on a double foul?

It matters for POI situations.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

It matters for POI situations.

What about the definition of POI?

(More specifically, 4-36-2(b)?)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Sounds like the throw-in hadn't ended. Therefore, I think you've got to go AP.

See post #7 by M&M.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

See post #7 by M&M.

Yeah.........

Ok, tell me there's an elephant in the living room - what am I missing?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Sounds like the throw-in hadn't ended. Therefore, I think you've got to go AP.

Would your opinion be different if the thrower hadn't released the ball yet?

[Damian]

First, a throw in ends the ball is legally touched, a foul or violation occurs, or the ball becomes dead. The throw in ended with the foul. Since neither team had control, go with the AP.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Damian

First, a throw in ends the ball is legally touched, a foul or violation occurs, or the ball becomes dead.

Reference, please. and be sure to include 4-42-5 (2006 reference) in the response.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Would your opinion be different if the thrower hadn't released the ball yet?

Holy cow... massive elephant in the living room that I completely missed.

Ok, got ya now.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Holy cow... massive elephant in the living room that I completely missed.

Ok, got ya now.

Tanner, you're all right!

This has to be one of the top 10 posts of the past five years.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

A buddy called me this morning about a call he had in a kids game last night. NF rules. After a violation by team B, A1 to inbound on the side. While the inbound pass is in the air, A2 and B2 foul each other for a double foul. The AP arrow is with team B. Should they give the ball to team B for an AP throw-in or use POI and give it back to team A even though there is no team control during a throw-in?

His point was that if they used the AP arrow, it seemed like they were penalizing team A for a foul that was equally caused by both teams.

What would you have told him?

I would have told him the following: There is no team control on a throw-in Feds. So, since there was a double foul while the ball was NOT in either team control (still in the air). There is no choice but go to the arrow. Rules 6-3g; 4-36-2c will support.