Basketball rules fundamentals

[ABO77]

When I read the 20 fundamentals in the back of the rule book I really dont get anything out of them...that is, what makes these 20 statements sooo fundamental? When I think of a fundamental statement it should be short, easy to remember and has a lot of weight. Most of the 20 statements in the rb are not that way imo. Their long, wordy (some have the word 'except' in them), not ez to remember and not anymore important than any other rule in the rb.

Not all of the 20 statements are bad, but most of them could be removed and not be missed.

[mick]

Originally Posted by ABO77

When I read the 20 fundamentals in the back of the rule book I really dont get anything out of them...that is, what makes these 20 statements sooo fundamental? When I think of a fundamental statement it should be short, easy to remember and has a lot of weight. Most of the 20 statements in the rb are not that way imo. Their long, wordy (some have the word 'except' in them), not ez to remember and not anymore important than any other rule in the rb.

Not all of the 20 statements are bad, but most of them could be removed and not be missed.

Regardless, put them in your bag and take them to every game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ABO77

When I read the 20 fundamentals in the back of the rule book I really dont get anything out of them...that is, what makes these 20 statements sooo fundamental? When I think of a fundamental statement it should be short, easy to remember and has a lot of weight. Most of the 20 statements in the rb are not that way imo. Their long, wordy (some have the word 'except' in them), not ez to remember and not anymore important than any other rule in the rb.

Not all of the 20 statements are bad, but most of them could be removed and not be missed.

You are really over thinking it. The Fundamentals are ways to help you understand common or basic rules. For example #5 says you can never have a travel during a jump ball, throw-in or free throw. The statement takes different areas of the rules and makes a general and specific true statement. These are not things you are going to always remember, but might help you understand several areas of the rules when you read them.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Basketball Rules Fundamentals

While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.
Neither a team nor any player is ever in control during a dead ball, jump ball, throw in. or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for a goal.
A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through unless canceled by a throw-in violation or a player control foul.
The jump ball, the throw-in and the free throw are the only methods of getting a dead ball live.
Neither the dribble nor traveling rule operates during the jump ball, throw-in or free throw.
It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.
The only infractions for which points are awarded are goaltending by the defense or basket interference at the opponent’s basket.
There are three types of violations and each has its own penalty.
A ball in flight has the same relationship to frontcourt or backcourt, or inbounds or out of bounds as when it last touched a person or the floor.
Personal fouls always involve illegal contact and occur during a live ball, except a common foul by or on an airborne shooter.
The penalty for a single flagrant personal or flagrant technical foul is two free throws and disqualification plus awarding the ball to the opponents for a throw-in.
Penalties for fouls are administered in the order in which they occur.
A live-ball foul by the offense (team in the control or last in control if the ball is loose) or the expiration of time for a quarter or extra period, causes the ball to become dead immediately unless the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal. The ball also becomes dead when a player control foul occurs.
The first or only free-throw violation by the offense causes the ball to become dead immediately.
A double personal foul involves only personal fouls and only two opponents; no free throws awaded and the ball is put in play at the point of interruption. A double technical foul involves only technical fouls and only two opponents; no free throws are awarded and theball is put in play at the point of interruption.
The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).
"Continuous motion" applies both to tries and taps for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by the defense during interval begins when the habitual trying or tapping motion starts and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.
Whether the clock is running or is stopped has no influence on the counting of a goal.
A ball which touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds except that when the ball touches the thrower’s backboard, it does not constitute a part of a dribble.
If the ball goes through the basket before or after a player control foul, the goal shall not be counted.

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by ABO77

When I read the 20 fundamentals in the back of the rule book I really dont get anything out of them...that is, what makes these 20 statements sooo fundamental? When I think of a fundamental statement it should be short, easy to remember and has a lot of weight. Most of the 20 statements in the rb are not that way imo. Their long, wordy (some have the word 'except' in them), not ez to remember and not anymore important than any other rule in the rb.

Not all of the 20 statements are bad, but most of them could be removed and not be missed.

I am going to disagree. If you understand the fundamentals many of the rule interpretations we have to use are easy. If you look at discussions over the past several days, many of them are directly related to fundamentals...

Example...
Continuous motion" applies both to tries and taps for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by the defense during interval begins when the habitual trying or tapping motion starts and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.

Seems there was a long discussion about when a try ends on shooters who shoot the ball and dont leave the ground...

How about all the high school refs that call a foul (incorrectly) before the shot, when a player is driving and has picked up the ball on the way to the basket

Lets take another

Neither the dribble nor traveling rule operates during the jump ball, throw-in or free throw.

How many times do we hear or see a throw-in incorrectly called because a player moved his pivot foot, of player cant bounce ball, or the best one.. The referees that use a travel signal for a throw-in violation... Cant be done..


If you know the fundamentals you'll get plays right!

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

How about all the high school refs that call a foul (incorrectly) before the shot, when a player is driving and has picked up the ball on the way to the basket

Exactly...had a player driving the lane, in a game last week, the player dribbled then picked up the ball and got fouled before he could shoot.

I was T and had followed the dribbler, from my area, all the way. I called the foul and said 2 shots. As I was reporting the Coach said "That wasn't a shooting foul". I said, "Then why did he pick up the ball on the drive?"
The Coach said, "Maybe he was going to pass it."

...and that's why we get the big bucks.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ABO77

When I read the 20 fundamentals in the back of the rule book I really dont get anything out of them...that is, what makes these 20 statements sooo fundamental? When I think of a fundamental statement it should be short, easy to remember and has a lot of weight. Most of the 20 statements in the rb are not that way imo. Their long, wordy (some have the word 'except' in them), not ez to remember and not anymore important than any other rule in the rb.

Not all of the 20 statements are bad, but most of them could be removed and not be missed.

I'd say you're on your own, partner.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Exactly...had a player driving the lane, in a game last week, the player dribbled then picked up the ball and got fouled before he could shoot.

I was T and had followed the dribbler, from my area, all the way. I called the foul and said 2 shots. As I was reporting the Coach said "That wasn't a shooting foul". I said, "Then why did he pick up the ball on the drive?"
The Coach said, "Maybe he was going to pass it."

...and that's why we get the big bucks.

Perhaps the coach was right. How do you know that he wasn't? From your post, I see nothing to indicate that the player had begun the act of shooting.

Ending a dribble does not constitute the start of the habitual throwing motion.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Perhaps the coach was right. How do you know that he wasn't? From your post, I see nothing to indicate that the player had begun the act of shooting.

Ending a dribble does not constitute the start of the habitual throwing motion.

I read Dude's post as saying that he judged that the player had started his act of shooting, and he then called the foul accordingly.

And Dude's never lied to me before.

[JoeT]

Originally Posted by ABO77

Not all of the 20 statements are bad, but most of them could be removed and not be missed.

I'd miss them. I no longer ref - I only coach (so start flaming me now, I guess), but I've had two separate situations this month alone where officials misapplied rules fundamentals on potentially game-changing calls.

In one situation, near the end of the game (both teams in double-bonus):
A1 legally secures an offensive rebound and attempts a long (and ill-advised) pass to A2. Contact occurs between B1 and A2 as B1 tries to intercept; ball deflects OOB. Here the official calls a foul on A2 (could have gone either way, but that was the call.) Officials begin to line up teams for B1 to shoot free throws. I (as the coach of "A") question "when did our team control end?"

Fundamental 1 MAY have helped here....

(Btw, B1 hits both FTs to take the lead - ouch. We wound up winning by 1 luckily.)

The second one was easier (and therefore more frustrating): A1 (us again) inbounds from her frontcourt sideline directly into her backcourt. Official calls backcourt violation and awards team B possession. (Again, this was with less than 2 minutes left in a 4-point game.) His partner did not help him on the call, but afterward approached me to say that I had been right when I contested it.

Fundamental 2 may have helped here.

I'm a big fan of the rules fundamentals. I wish they were better understood.

[ABO77]

The point I was trying to make in the OP was not that 20 fundamentals are less important or irrelevant...I just dont see most of them being any more important than many of the other rules in the RB.

I should of said..."Not all of the 20 statements are bad, but most of them could be removed and not be missed" as a fundamental

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ABO77

The point I was trying to make in the OP was not that 20 fundamentals are less important or irrelevant...I just dont see most of them being any more important than many of the other rules in the RB.

I should of said..."Not all of the 20 statements are bad, but most of them could be removed and not be missed" as a fundamental

They will not be removed because they are solid as it relates to rules. I think you are missing the point of why these are fundamentals. They are not fundamental because you must know them. They are fundamental because each statement is true and supported by the rules. It is not about memorization of these, it is just each item has not only rules support but usually combines different rules to each statement.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Some of them seem basic and obvious, that is true. However many of them encompass knowledge that could only be had by studying all the relevant rules and then making additional inferrences based on the lack of rules to the contrary.

For example the fundamental about a jump ball, throw-in, and free throw being the only way to get a dead ball live. To prove this otherwise you'd have to pull together the relevant sections of rule six and rule four, which only tell us when the dead ball becomes live during these events. Then you have to infer that there are no additional ways a ball can become live from the absense of any other rules.

You'd be just as correct to continue believing what this fundamental tells us if it didn't exist. But minus this authoratative statement, any argument to the contrary would have be settled by saying, "Show me a place where the rulebook says the ball becomes live any other way."

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I read Dude's post as saying that he judged that the player had started his act of shooting, and he then called the foul accordingly.

And Dude's never lied to me before.

I quit trying to fool JR a long time ago...so yes, Nevada, believe him when he says I "judged that the player had started his act of shooting".