T or not??

jeffpea · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 10:52am

no T. since you're the one who created the situation, you've got to give him a little leeway....unless of course he screaming/yelling VERY loudly to embarrass you (then he's giving you no choice). just tell him "I may be a lot dumber than I look, but I am smart enough to remember that it's blue ball"...then laugh a little, administer the throw in, and don't let it happen again!

rainmaker · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea

no T. since you're the one who created the situation, you've got to give him a little leeway....unless of course he screaming/yelling VERY loudly to embarrass you (then he's giving you no choice). just tell him "I may be a lot dumber than I look, but I am smart enough to remember that it's blue ball"...then laugh a little, administer the throw in, and don't let it happen again!

NO way. No way I'm saying to a coach, "I may be dumber than I look" Never, never, never.

Actually, even when I make a mistake, coach gets no leeway to yell like the OP. It's a whack without question. Period.

chartrusepengui · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 10:59am

Quote:

no T. since you're the one who created the situation, you've got to give him a little leeway....

I disagree - OP didn't create situation - coach did when he was already busting him while he was on way to report. Ok - maybe MidMadness should not have listened - but the coach created the situation and if it was enough to make an official lose track of who the foul was on it was most definately enough for whacking!

jeffpea · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I disagree - OP didn't create situation - coach did when he was already busting him while he was on way to report. Ok - maybe MidMadness should not have listened - but the coach created the situation and if it was enough to make an official lose track of who the foul was on it was most definately enough for whacking!

If we were working together and you forgot the number, as your partner, I would probably say the same thing in a joking manner....would you WHACK me? C'mon...MidMadness created the problem - coaches talk/yell/gesture/motion to us all the time while reporting a foul, it's very rare that we forget the number - but it happens.

You SHOULD be embarrassed. You SHOULD be self-concious.

You SHOULD ALSO be mature enough to realize that you screwed up and be able to take a little criticism - you certainly would deserve it. What's wrong with saying: "Coach, you're right. I screwed up. Let's not make it worse than it already is." or "Yea, I really butchered that didn't I?". Instead I chose self-deprecating humor ("I know I'm dumber than I look....") which generally works well for me.

If you decide to T the coach, then you certainly are well within your authority to do so. However, keep in mind that it's also within your authority to admit a mistake when it occurs. IMHO, a T here does not make the game any better.

chartrusepengui · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 11:48am

Quote:

If we were working together and you forgot the number, as your partner, I would probably say the same thing in a joking manner....would you WHACK me?

He ain't my partner! If you were my partner - I would hope you would at least wait until after the game to say something like that. A good partner would never say something like that on court even in a joking manner - in front of players/coaches etc EVEN if I had just had a brain fart and the coach had said nothing.

Quote:

You SHOULD be embarrassed. You SHOULD be self-concious.

Agreed

Quote:

You SHOULD ALSO be mature enough to realize that you screwed up and be able to take a little criticism

I'll take that from the appropriate people at the appropriate place and time - and that is not on court by a coach who was "busting me on the way to report"

TheOracle · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 11:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea

If we were working together and you forgot the number, as your partner, I would probably say the same thing in a joking manner....would you WHACK me? C'mon...MidMadness created the problem - coaches talk/yell/gesture/motion to us all the time while reporting a foul, it's very rare that we forget the number - but it happens.

You SHOULD be embarrassed. You SHOULD be self-concious.

You SHOULD ALSO be mature enough to realize that you screwed up and be able to take a little criticism - you certainly would deserve it. What's wrong with saying: "Coach, you're right. I screwed up. Let's not make it worse than it already is." or "Yea, I really butchered that didn't I?". Instead I chose self-deprecating humor ("I know I'm dumber than I look....") which generally works well for me.

If you decide to T the coach, then you certainly are well within your authority to do so. However, keep in mind that it's also within your authority to admit a mistake when it occurs. IMHO, a T here does not make the game any better.

This whole post is dead on.

chartrusepengui · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 11:55am

Quote:

When I see a quick T after a missed to controversial call, it tells me that the official is defensive and/or doesn't react well in stressful situations.

Many times one coach or the other think a call has been missed and becomes upset. The point is they don't have the right to be "busting you" on the way to report. I think you see most T's after some kind of call that appears to be controversial to someone - so do you mean we should only call a T for administrative reasons - like wrong number in the book? Otherwise is might appear that we are defensive and don't react well in the stressfull enviroment of a BB game?

IMO you are a brick short of a load on this one.

tomegun · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:05pm

For anyone reading this post that is on the fence concerning this, don't listen to Oracle, Jeffpea or Fullor30. They are full of it. The OP said, "Coach is busting on me on the way to report."
I don't know how long the OP has been officiating, but I do know that from time to time we all forget a number. After the reporting is said and done, what the coach said was not questioning a call and it wasn't a comment made in any sporting manner. It was sarcastic only.
This is a super easy T and I will refrain from calling anyone who says what these three said a name. I'm really trying.

bob jenkins · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Many times one coach or the other think a call has been missed and becomes upset. The point is they don't have the right to be "busting you" on the way to report. I think you see most T's after some kind of call that appears to be controversial to someone - so do you mean we should only call a T for administrative reasons - like wrong number in the book? Otherwise is might appear that we are defensive and don't react well in the stressfull enviroment of a BB game?

IMO you are a brick short of a load on this one.

Apparently, the actions on the way to report weren't T-worthy. So, that's not a point of discussion here.

If you mess up, then you should take more than if you don't mess up. There's still a line that can't be crossed. Based on my mind's-eys view of the OP, I don't think the line was crossed, and I likely wouldn't T. I would address it. Several suggestions on how have been given.

:shrug:

Rich · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:24pm

It's not often I agree with the "other side" but I would likely try to shut the coach down with something other than a technical. A technical here would be like throwing gas on a fire.

Real life example from the other night:

Partner called a foul the other night in the middle of traffic. I had the shooter but not the fouler (we were in the bonus). Partner reported the wrong number.

So, being it was a girls game, I stepped up and said softly to one of the likely candidates, "You know who that was on?" "Me, she said." Girls are usually honest in this position (guys, I wouldn't try this) and the coach didn't know I had asked (he probably did later, and I really don't care). I told my partner and he reported it. It was foul #4 on the player, and the coach started with my partner. Nothing over the top, but an "are you sure. I think you got the wrong player." Normally, it would've gone on a bit too long, but....

It looked bad, we didn't do our jobs, and that, my friends, is where the leash gets loosened at bit, for a very short time. Whacking him right there, right away, is almost the equivalent of baiting him for the technical.

Coaches have a vested interest in the game and they should expect certain things to go right, like us actually reporting the right person to the table. Reporting the wrong person, especially if that player is one of the more talented or is in foul trouble is not good. And that person ALWAYS is the wrong person, for whatever reason -- we never get the sub who just came in, will play 5 minutes, and has 5 fouls to burn.

I was working football three years ago and one of my crew members had an inadvertent whistle that cost the team 15 yards. I had to go to the head coach and explain his choices and he started right away. I stopped him and told him I'd let him vent for 30 seconds after he told me his choice, but that I wouldn't tolerate anything after that. If he didn't turn the page (as we as officials needed to), he was going to get flagged. Then I shut up and let him vent for 30 seconds. He knew better than to be profane and personal and just vented. After thirty seconds, I reminded him that it's over and now we're going to continue the game. And we all did. But I made sure I looked him in the eye and at least pretended to listen to every word he said.

I would recommend walking over to the coach, telling him that "I screwed up," but it won't help anyone if he tries to embarrass me or show me up and that if he wants to vent, I'll give him a few seconds as long as he doesn't show me up and that he turns the page.

rainmaker · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's not often I agree with the "other side" but I would likely try to shut the coach down with something other than a technical. A technical here would be like throwing gas on a fire.

Real life example from the other night:

Partner called a foul the other night in the middle of traffic. I had the shooter but not the fouler (we were in the bonus). Partner reported the wrong number.

So, being it was a girls game, I stepped up and said softly to one of the likely candidates, "You know who that was on?" "Me, she said." Girls are usually honest in this position (guys, I wouldn't try this) and the coach didn't know I had asked (he probably did later, and I really don't care). I told my partner and he reported it. It was foul #4 on the player, and the coach started with my partner. Nothing over the top, but an "are you sure. I think you got the wrong player." Normally, it would've gone on a bit too long, but....

It looked bad, we didn't do our jobs, and that, my friends, is where the leash gets loosened at bit, for a very short time. Whacking him right there, right away, is almost the equivalent of baiting him for the technical..

But what the coach said in your sitch is different from the OP. The OP was being loud, obnoxious, and then hit the ABS limit (imo) with a loud sarcastic show-me-up smart-aleck remark that had nothing to do with the missed number. I agree that if you can shut the guy down without a T, it should be done that way, and it may be that some folks could pull that off. I couldn't have, and I don't think anyone should feel that a T would be out of place in the OP.

Mregor · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 28, 2007, 07:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I was working football three years ago and one of my crew members had an inadvertent whistle that cost the team 15 yards. I had to go to the head coach and explain his choices and he started right away. I stopped him and told him I'd let him vent for 30 seconds after he told me his choice, but that I wouldn't tolerate anything after that. If he didn't turn the page (as we as officials needed to), he was going to get flagged. Then I shut up and let him vent for 30 seconds. He knew better than to be profane and personal and just vented. After thirty seconds, I reminded him that it's over and now we're going to continue the game. And we all did. But I made sure I looked him in the eye and at least pretended to listen to every word he said.

Hey, I worked that game with you and it cost him more than 15 yards. It cost him a first down and he ended up punting. The snap was bad and they turned the ball over on downs near their goal line and Monroe went in to score. I was on his side of the field and he was riding me all night because of that. BTW, do you still work the Badger. Mr. Rice said we'd never work their again. I haven't but of course I moved twice since then. I remember it well...

Roger

fullor30 · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOracle

This whole post is dead on.

Agreed...........good way to handle it.

REFVA · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 03:23pm

Quote:

had a foul the other day....Coach is busting on me on the way to report..I lose track of who the foul is on.....

I bet you won't forget that again!

Whack, his behavior is not excused...

JoeTheRef · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 03:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by REFVA

....had a foul the other day....Coach is busting on me on the way to report..I lose track of who the foul is on.....

I bet you won't forget that again!

Whack, his behavior is not excused...

If the coach is busting this officials balls so bad on the way to report, why not stop the coach right then and there, STOP sign up, and tell the coach no more! Then when you forget the darn # you have a frickin excuse. But to go from spot of the foul to the table and forget and blame the coach because he's yapping in your ear and you're letting him, is a poor excuse.