End of game "let them play"

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Last Two Minutes
We’re not calling anything in the last two minutes if we haven’t already called it earlier in the game, unless it’s so blatant that it can’t be ignored.

So the only time you call something that's blatant is in the last two minutes? Huh?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

So the only time you call something that's blatant is in the last two minutes? Huh?

... unless he called it earlier in the game? like he said? in his post?? hello??

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

So the only time you call something that's blatant is in the last two minutes? Huh?

We're always going to make a call on a blatant foul. But there are some calls that we're NOT going to make in the last two minutes -- unless they're blatant.

Better?

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

We're always going to make a call on a blatant foul. But there are some calls that we're NOT going to make in the last two minutes -- unless they're blatant.

Better?

I do not believe you officiate that way.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by mick

I do not believe you officiate that way.

I absolutely do. You think the first 3-seconds call of the night is going to be in the last 45 seconds of a 4 point game? No way -- unless it's blatant. He's been in there for 5 seconds and ignored a couple warnings and then gets the pass.

You think I'm calling the first illegal screen of the game in the last 2 minutes? No way. We've clearly let the borderline screens go all game. I'm going to call one now? Uh-uh. If there's a blatant illegal screen that bumps a guy 5 feet off the court to free up the shooter, then I'm grabbing that one.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I absolutely do. You think the first 3-seconds call of the night is going to be in the last 45 seconds of a 4 point game? No way -- unless it's blatant. He's been in there for 5 seconds and ignored a couple warnings and then gets the pass.

You think I'm calling the first illegal screen of the game in the last 2 minutes? No way. We've clearly let the borderline screens go all game. I'm going to call one now? Uh-uh. If there's a blatant illegal screen that bumps a guy 5 feet off the court to free up the shooter, then I'm grabbing that one.

So if there is an illegal screen that doesn't bump the guy 5 feet off the court, but it frees the ball-handler up enough to score and put Team A up with less then a minute, you're not making that call? Or the arm-bar or hand/hands on the dribbler causing him not to make his move to the basket, you're not making that call in the last minute either?? I ask because I'm taking your definition of "blatant" as the harshness of the contact or the extensiveness of the violation, versus, the "blatant" or "OBVIOUS" foul or violation. If your definition is the latter, then I agree, and an illegal screen to gain an OBVIOUS advantage at the end of the game should be called, as well as the camping in the lane to jockey for the tip-in to take a lead with less then a minute.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

So if there is an illegal screen that doesn't bump the guy 5 feet off the court, but it frees the ball-handler up enough to score and put Team A up with less then a minute, you're not making that call? .

The OP specifically talked about a blow-out, not a game where a score puts one team up when it wasn't before the shot. In a close game, it should be called consistently on the tight end of the narrow flexibility continuum all through the game. In a game with one clear victor, it should be called consistently on the lighter end of that continuum. Unless there are sportsmanship issues.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

The OP specifically talked about a blow-out, not a game where a score puts one team up when it wasn't before the shot. In a close game, it should be called consistently on the tight end of the narrow flexibility continuum all through the game. In a game with one clear victor, it should be called consistently on the lighter end of that continuum. Unless there are sportsmanship issues.

Thank you.

My post was specific to Scrapper's post of the blatancy of his calls late in the game.

But I totally agree to your philosophy and furthermore, with the exception of your post, the last time I heard or read the word "continuum" space-time preceded it.

[mick]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

The OP specifically talked about a blow-out, not a game where a score puts one team up when it wasn't before the shot. In a close game, it should be called consistently on the tight end of the narrow flexibility continuum all through the game. In a game with one clear victor, it should be called consistently on the lighter end of that continuum. Unless there are sportsmanship issues.

Nope. Didn't.

Originally Posted by ABO77
At the end of a game a commonly heard philosophy is to "let the guys play". Just wondering if you guys change the way you call the game at the end...esp a close good game?

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

We're always going to make a call on a blatant foul. But there are some calls that we're NOT going to make in the last two minutes -- unless they're blatant.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I absolutely do. You think the first 3-seconds call of the night is going to be in the last 45 seconds of a 4 point game? No way -- unless it's blatant. He's been in there for 5 seconds and ignored a couple warnings and then gets the pass.

You think I'm calling the first illegal screen of the game in the last 2 minutes? No way. We've clearly let the borderline screens go all game. I'm going to call one now? Uh-uh. If there's a blatant illegal screen that bumps a guy 5 feet off the court to free up the shooter, then I'm grabbing that one.

In these two examples, both would have been made for the first time in the last 2 minutes during the game. The OP was about letting them play and changing the quality of the calls. I do not believe you change the quality of your calls, but I do believe you may not start calling something new in the last couple/few minutes unless they are blatant.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by mick

In these two examples, both would have been made for the first time in the last 2 minutes during the game. The OP was about letting them play and changing the quality of the calls. I do not believe you change the quality of your calls, but I do believe you may not start calling something new in the last couple/few minutes unless they are blatant.

I totally agree with this, and in the last minute or two, if you're the R you should be bringing your crew together the first timeout you get and state this.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by mick

In these two examples, both would have been made for the first time in the last 2 minutes during the game.

That is correct. That is exactly what I said in my reply to Mark Padgett. But then you said you didn't believe I'd officiate that way. We will ALWAYS call the blatant stuff. But some stuff, especially in the last two minutes, will ONLY get called if it's blatant.

I do believe you may not start calling something new in the last couple/few minutes unless they are blatant.

I believe that's what I've been saying all along. (Or trying to say, anyway)

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

That is correct. That is exactly what I said in my reply to Mark Padgett. But then you said you didn't believe I'd officiate that way. We will ALWAYS call the blatant stuff. But some stuff, especially in the last two minutes, will ONLY get called if it's blatant.

I believe that's what I've been saying all along. (Or trying to say, anyway)

A couple of us knew what you meant to say.

[daveg144]

As others have said, a lot depends on the game situation. In a close game, you've got to be consistent all night with what you're calling. In a blowout, I'm going to lean a little bit with the team that's getting badly beaten. In other words, if team A has a 20 point lead in the second half and there's a 50/50 block/charge, I'm going to favor team B. If it's a no doubter, then we make the correct call. I'll also make team A play through a little more contact before I call a foul. Again, not blatantly ignoring obvious fouls, I'm just looking for a few little things that might help soften a bad night for a team that's getting drilled.

Once again, I can't say firmly enough that this does not mean I'm not calling obvious fouls and violations on team B.

In a close game, if we don't have an illegal screen until the last 2 minutes, and it's a no-brainer call (guy moves 3 feet to put a shoulder or leg into the defender) I'm calling it.

Hope this helps a little.

[Y2Koach]

I hear a lot of spectators/parents/fans saying stuff like "let the players decide the game"... well, if your player has slow feet and needs to use two hands to try to keep the offense player from getting to the basket, that player is deciding the game by fouling. Letting it go would be not allowing the offense from deciding the game by making his freethrows. If hand-checking and rough defensive pressure is allowed in the first half, why call ticky tack touch fouls at the end of the game because one team now wants to foul due to strategy? I wanted to fouls to be called in the first half due to strategy (get fouled, make freethrows)... I say let them play, but calling fouls and shooting freethrows are part of letting them play...

unless you deem calling fouls in the first half intentionally not letting them play...