"Hideout" Play--Legal or Not?

[reff4e]

This happened in an NC playoff game last night (11-23-07):

Time is running out in first half. Team A on first down runs a dive, one of their players leaves the field, then huddles with TEN players. Ball is whistled ready with about 15 seconds remaining and clock running. A88 comes in from the bench and enters the huddle as A89 leaves the huddle and stops at the sideline. Ball is snapped just before time expires and A89 goes downfield (undetected by defense) and catches a TD pass.

Legal or not? Rules references?

[TXMike]

I'm sitting here in Raleigh area right now. What game was it?

[MadCityRef]

The answer is No.

[waltjp]

FED 9-6-4

It is illegal participation:

d. To use a player, replaced player or substitute in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.

[With_Two_Flakes]

NCAA Rule 9-2-2-b
No simulated replacements or substitutions may be used to confuse opponents. No tactic associated with substitutes or the substitution process may be used to confuse opponents.
PENALTY - Live ball foul. 15 yds Previous spot. Flagrant offenders shall be disqualified.

.....and in the Approved Rulings, there is one that describes the same play that you did.

AR 9-2-2-III
A1 leaves the field during a down. Team A huddles with 10 players. Substitute A12 enters and A2 simulates leaving the field, but sets near the sideline for a "hide-out" pass. RULING: Penalty -- 15 yards from the previous spot. This is a simulated replacement of a player to confuse opponents.

[TXMike]

Hmmmmmm...from a NCAA game today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw8DhhyMS-o

[MJT]

That is a foul at any level. I wonder what the Big 12 commissioner will have to say about it. Luckily it did not result in a 1st down.

[Suudy]

I wondered about a similar play. Anybody watch the UCLA/Oregon game yesterday?

Oregon kicked off, and UCLA started a return to the right. A UCLA player on the left side of the field was laying on the ground with nobody near him, obviously in an attempt to hideout. The return man then tried to throw a backward pass across the field, but it ended up being forward 3 or 4 yards. Anyways, they called it back for the illegal forward pass.

My point was the player laying on the ground. I recall there being an explicit mention that all players must be standing, but I think that is before the snap. Would that apply when the ball is live? The UCLA player in question seemed to lie down in an attempt to deceive.

(I'm trying to find a youtube clip of it).

[HLin NC]

but is from N.C.



http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...018/PrepSports

Scroll down to "Roberson uses ‘sleeper’"

[William C]

The original play is ILLEGAL.
They are using subs to deceive .
Illeg. part. and unsports. --choose your poison. But - better call it illeg. part. to be able to bring it back to the LOS - as opposed to explaining the unsprt. coming back. You can - if you can kill it at the snap.

Come on NC refs ..... our head man in C.Hill has discussed this w/ us in the clinics. It cost a team a state c-ship a few years ago. You cannot do it. Be ready for it...it's not hard to spot.

The one described in the paper sounds completely different than the one that was posted on here.

[reff4e]

William C:
My feelings exactly. Seems to me a blatant example of a 'pretended substitution' for the intent of deception. However, some of our brethren disagree on just what constitutes this 'pretended sub'.

I talked to an official who was present at the game but not working it, and he described the play the way I described it in the original post. The newspaper article in HL in NC's post paints a different picture.

In any case, it would be helpful if the NFHS Casebook would address such plays directly. It seems we hear of these plays every year come playoff time.

BTW, are you from the Asheboro area?