"Letting Them Play..."

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

I disagree.. we are not there to take over a game.

If the officials do not control (take over) the game who does?

I really have no idea what the rest of your post has to do with this question.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

If the officials do not control (take over) the game who does?

I really have no idea what the rest of your post has to do with this question.

Dan.. I think we have different view on "taking over" Controlling a game within the confines of the rules is not taking over a game in my eyes. Its policing a game.

We guide and enforce the guidelines, but there are alot of... unwriten rules when it comes to this.

One person on this board said that if we called ever contact we saw on the court games would last days. That is taking over the game. When you call every thing you possibly can just cause you can. IMO.

I've never seen any good varsity officials do that. They always are patient and precise with the whistle.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Dan.. I think we have different view on "taking over" Controlling a game within the confines of the rules is not taking over a game in my eyes. Its policing a game.

We guide and enforce the guidelines, but there are alot of... unwriten rules when it comes to this.

One person on this board said that if we called ever contact we saw on the court games would last days. That is taking over the game. When you call every thing you possibly can just cause you can. IMO.

I've never seen any good varsity officials do that. They always are patient and precise with the whistle.

Well again I don't know what a patient whistle - or even what you see varsity officials do - has to do with this discussion. But let's leave it at this: what most would call poor officiating you call "taking over". My view is different - good officials take over as soon as they hit the floor.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well again I don't know what a patient whistle - or even what you see varsity officials do - has to do with this discussion. But let's leave it at this: what most would call poor officiating you call "taking over". My view is different - good officials take over as soon as they hit the floor.

I agree with Dan. One thing I always talk about when I run the pregame is that we are calling our game and the players are going to adjust. Now, what that game looks like can depend upon the level of basketball, but we know how to adjust.

[TheOracle]

The term or idea of "taking over" a game indicates that you have to control what is happening. That attitude will clash with players, coaches, and fans on occasion, which will generate a lot of negative emotion. That is just bad for the game, period.

There are times when the game gets messy, and calls need to be made to set the expectation that basketball needs to be played and some kind of flow established. More often than not, when the most aggressive players go to the bench with foul trouble, the game miraculously cleans up.

The worst thing that can occur in a messy part of the game is to overcall. The game got a little messy for a reason. Players got hyped up. Some non-calls or passes got players upset, emotional, or gave them the impression that they could get away with aggressive play. To fix that, strategic calls must be made to show everyone what the expectations are.

The biggest mistake less experienced officials make is to blow a whistle that doesn't need to be blown, because that cannot be fixed. Your partners cannot help in that situation. And if a crew or officials starts overcalling to "take over" a messy game, that does very little to reset or reinforce the expectations of what is acceptable. It makes the crew look inconsistent. And a large majority of the time, if the aggressors or disruptive players remain in the game, the game stays messy, flow is not established, and everyobody gets frustrated--officials included.

Officials are there to manage the game, to make sure that players and teams do not get an unfair advantage. I may tighten up on aggressive players to help the flow of the game, but never do I think about "taking over". That's when disasters start.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

To fix that, strategic calls must be made to show everyone what the expectations are.

Whatintheheck are "strategic" calls?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

The term or idea of "taking over" a game indicates that you have to control what is happening.

Incorrect. It means that we are in control; but we do not control the actions of the players or the outcome of the game. We are in control of the game at all times.

There are times when the game gets messy, and calls need to be made to set the expectation that basketball needs to be played and some kind of flow established. More often than not, when the most aggressive players go to the bench with foul trouble, the game miraculously cleans up.

The worst thing that can occur in a messy part of the game is to overcall. The game got a little messy for a reason. Players got hyped up. Some non-calls or passes got players upset, emotional, or gave them the impression that they could get away with aggressive play. To fix that, strategic calls must be made to show everyone what the expectations are.

These two paragraphs are a complete mess. There are lots of lower level games in which you can make calls with whatever expectations you want, and the players do not adjust. You have to keep blowing the whistle and you don't ever get a flow. Your expectations have little impact on the game. You have to continue to call the game, regardless of how well your expectations are met.

Secondly, it is clearly NOT the worst thing to over-call in a messy or rough game. I don't even know how you could think such a thing. You just got finished writing that you should call fouls until the aggressive players go to the bench -- but don't over-call.

If you have a game that is overly-aggressive and the players are not responding to your "normal" calls, then you MUST over-call. Call everything until they play basketball or until they sit. Then you can go back to your "normal" game.

The biggest mistake less experienced officials make is to blow a whistle that doesn't need to be blown, because that cannot be fixed.

Hardly.

And if a crew or officials starts overcalling to "take over" a messy game, that does very little to reset or reinforce the expectations of what is acceptable.

While it may make the crew look slightly inconsistent, it absolutely sends the message that the way the game is being played is unacceptable.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Dan.. I think we have different view on "taking over" Controlling a game within the confines of the rules is not taking over a game in my eyes. Its policing a game.

We guide and enforce the guidelines, but there are alot of... unwriten rules when it comes to this.

One person on this board said that if we called ever contact we saw on the court games would last days. That is taking over the game. When you call every thing you possibly can just cause you can. IMO.

I've never seen any good varsity officials do that. They always are patient and precise with the whistle.

The officiating presence -- ie rules, guidelines, The Game -- should take over the game and be in control. That's what makes it a Game. The person in the body needs to be an official though, and not an individual. There's a time for the officiating presence to crack down and take over, calling everything to get the game back where it belongs. There's never a time for an individual to assert his/her own 2x4 personality and call everything because "that's just who I am".

For the officiating presence to take over is good and right. for the 2x4 personality to be an ooo is not good, not right.

[tomegun]

This whole post became a blur after I read that someone thinks Violet Palmer is the worst official in the NBA. That just goes to show that some people don't even know what they are watching when they claim to be officials. I have never met her, but I don't recall anyone saying anything bad about her off the court and she is a playoff official on the court. I can immediately think of a few NBA officials who are obviously worse...if you know what to look for.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

This whole post became a blur after I read that someone thinks Violet Palmer is the worst official in the NBA. That just goes to show that some people don't even know what they are watching when they claim to be officials. I have never met her, but I don't recall anyone saying anything bad about her off the court and she is a playoff official on the court. I can immediately think of a few NBA officials who are obviously worse...if you know what to look for.

It is funny how we tend to see many of these things the same way. I was thinking the exact same thing. I stopped reading after I heard that quote.

Peace

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is funny how we tend to see many of these things the same way. I was thinking the exact same thing. I stopped reading after I heard that quote.

Peace

Why is it such a big deal that I dont think she is very good??

ok.. so maybe I went overboard with the worst official remark, but I just dont think she is very good compared to many of her conterparts. Its just my opinion. (which has been known to be wrong from time to time.)

I'm just starting out, so you may be right.. also I havn't seen one of her games in a while so I'll have to watch again and see if she improved since.

That being said.. I know of a few other official who agree with my opinion on violet palmer. One of them being a very seasoned official and has been reffing for almost 40 years.

I'm not the only one...

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Why is it such a big deal that I dont think she is very good??

ok.. so maybe I went overboard with the worst official remark, but I just dont think she is very good compared to many of her conterparts. Its just my opinion. (which has been known to be wrong from time to time.)

I'm just starting out, so you may be right.. also I havn't seen one of her games in a while so I'll have to watch again and see if she improved since.

That being said.. I know of a few other official who agree with my opinion on violet palmer. One of them being a very seasoned official and has been reffing for almost 40 years.

I'm not the only one...

Well, 10,000 people who agree with you don't mean you're right... it also doesn't mean you're wrong, though...

Since it's just an opinion, you could probably word it like this...

"I don't like Violet Palmer. I wish they'd get rid of her. I don't think she is very good."

And don't be afraid to change your mind. Maybe after you've been reffing some more you'll see things differently. You just never know.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Why is it such a big deal that I dont think she is very good??

ok.. so maybe I went overboard with the worst official remark, but I just dont think she is very good compared to many of her conterparts. Its just my opinion. (which has been known to be wrong from time to time.)

I'm just starting out, so you may be right.. also I havn't seen one of her games in a while so I'll have to watch again and see if she improved since.

That being said.. I know of a few other official who agree with my opinion on violet palmer. One of them being a very seasoned official and has been reffing for almost 40 years.

I'm not the only one...

Whether you like it or not, you have not been around or been in enough wars to know what a good official truly does or does not do at this point. You have a right to your opinion and the right to say it. But I think the fact this is your first year, talking about the ability of an NBA Official is probably not a good idea. I am sure there other others that might have an opinion about her that is similar, but there are not officials that are in that class you hear saying that. And I rarely hear a bad word about her from players and she almost never seems to be at the forefront which seems to be things people like in an official. I do not even think I am qualified to say she is the worst official in the NBA. All I am is a HS and semi-college official.

Peace