Hate this Board!!!...(little long)

[physicsref]

I think the length of time you wait to blow a jump is highly dependent on the level of game play and flow of the game in question. Middle School game with 30 jump balls = hold the whistle a little longer. Frosh girl with 15 jumps = let them play a little, but not as much as middle school. At higher levels with bigger and stronger players, letting the players fight for a ball that is held is inviting conflict between the players. How many fights/verbal spats/staredowns/etc. happen after loose ball/held ball situations. Quite a few. A quicker whistle for the held ball can defuse some of the emotion here.

[Ridge Wiz]

You should give a jump when ... "Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness." (NHFS Rule4 Section 25 ART.1) When you, as an official, see Shaq & Spud Web obtaining equal control of the ball you had better be pretty quick on the whistle. On the other hand let equal "Titans" have an opportunity to play through. You have to adjust to this situation just as you do any other area that may create rough play.

[Hawks Coach]

Great point Ridge. No matter what level you ref, be aware of size mismatches on ball tie-ups. We have some strong players on our team who have found themselves tied up by far smaller players. When the ref is slow with the whistle, the smaller player goes flying (when they hold tightly to the ball). For some reason, our small players seem to be able to hold their own!? I have felt that most times the player went flying because the whistle was delayed too much.

[BktBallRef]

To address the first part of your post, it's not palming/carrying just because the ball was dribbled high. Although a couple of weeks ago, I did have a fan tell me that it's palming anytime the ball is bounced higher than the shoulder.

With regards to traveling and dribbling, you cannot travel during a dribble. It's a basketball fundamental. It doesn't matter how many steps you take between dribbles.

[Larks]

Originally posted by Danvrapp
egausch - During my time as a basketball official, I've discovered two things:

The block/charge is the call I struggle with the most. Some times on a bang bang play, a younger official (like myself!) can have a hard time sorting this one out. I've noticed that the top notch officials in my area hardly ever receive greif when they make a tough block / charge call.

Issue two is that younger officials also tend to have a hard time deciphering what is and is not a travel. I'd made it a point to study this rule in it's entirety before the season, and I now feel I get it right 9.5 times out of 10.

And like Bart said, at this level, well, you're not getting tournament-tested quality officials, but they're working their hardest, I'm sure.

I'm gonna echo that sentiment. As a Rook, I would say the toughest call for me is the block / charge. Sometimes it can happen so fast you have no idea who got there first.

I also hate the loose ball mad scramble for the ball. I think I tend to call a jump to quickly but when I see A1 with the ball and B1 cleanly get his / her hands on it so that they almost both have it...I go with the whistle and a jump before it gets nutty. I'm probably wrong but then most of my sitchs involving a tied up ball this season has been 3rd - 8th grade...and of course mostly girls. Something about girls basketball that coaches overcoach tying the ball up or just that girls hang it out there to get tied up.

Traveling...I struggle with the carry too. Pivot foot changes or extra steps are easy. The Carry for me is also a toughie.

Larks - Veteran In Training

[Larks]

So the point is, many thanks for welcoming coaches onto this board, and maintaining such a high level of interchange. It's a great resource! (Even if it does get me into trouble!!)
EG [/QUOTE]

Dont Hate the board....hate the game.....or the playa....or something like that.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Larks
So the point is, many thanks for welcoming coaches onto this board, and maintaining such a high level of interchange. It's a great resource! (Even if it does get me into trouble!!)
EG

Dont Hate the board....hate the game.....or the playa....or something like that. [/QUOTE]

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Slang lesson is over.

Peace

[BigJoe]

Here are a few tidbits of information from a veteran (10 yrs.) but learning everyday. One thing about the block charge call:it is important to establish the defenders position prior to the contact. Some vets call it officiating the defense. This applies off ball especially. You will have better success on the block/charge calls if you work hard on your off ball coverage. This will give you a better view of the play prior to the contact. Don't feel pressure to make a call just because of contact. If it isn't a major run-down of a player,and you don't know if the defensive player had position or not, don't just guess. I know you will take heat for not making a call, but it is better to make a no call than a guess. This also applies to the ball going out of bounds. If your partner can't help and you aren't sure, always go with the alternate possession. You will get more credibility from coaches than making something up. Obviously, they know that you didn't see the play when you looked to your partner for help so they will know if you made something up.
Keep the players "straight up"!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Slider
[/B]

If they extend their arms away from the body when contact is iminent, then it is a block. Plus, the arms must recoil from the impact or it is a block. If they don't want to get "bad" calls, they should have their arms up. [/B][/QUOTE]A defensive player extending their arms away from their body does not automatically make the call a block.The call is dependant on where the contact occurs.If the contact is on the extended arms or elbows,etc.-i.e. outside the frame of the defender's torso-,then you have a foul on the defender.If the contact is by the dribbler on the torso of the defender,you have a charge.The position of the defender's arms has no bearing at all if the dribbler makes contact on the defender's torso,unless the defender uses his arms to push off.As Brad said,if you watch the defender,you can usually pick-up the point-of-contact fairly easily-and then make your call off of that.

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
A defensive player extending their arms away from their body does not automatically make the call a block. The call is dependant on where the contact occurs.If the contact is on the extended arms or elbows,etc.-i.e. outside the frame of the defender's torso-,then you have a foul on the defender.

JR,
I usually call that "Holding" and reserve the "Block" for lower body contact by the defender.
Either way, we get to blow the whistle and put up our fist.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick

JR,
I usually call that "Holding" and reserve the "Block" for lower body contact by the defender.
Either way, we get to blow the whistle and put up our fist.
mick

Good point,mick,I should have added that!I use the "hold" signal,too-even though I've had a few interpreter gurus argue that the only correct signal in this case is "illegal use of hands".In my defense,I gotta tell ya that as I was writing the above,Mikey(my main dog) and Vesta(my back-up dog)were yapping at me to go down and let them out-so I was in a hurry.Will you buy that one?

[devdog69]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Just to make you feel better, I had a game last Sat. in which a rather rotund player (I'm being nice here - it's better than calling him a porker) dived on the floor after a loose ball. He grabbed it and his momentum made him roll over (sideways - not head over heels) about 3 times. He then came to a stop. My partner immediately called a travel. At the break, I asked him why he called the travel, since it was obvious the roll was caused by the player's momentum (and exacerbated by his extremely low center of gravity).

He told me he had a "two roll rule". If the player rolls over twice, it's a travel. I told him that in our rec league we had a "two rule rule" - that if an official got two rule interpretations wrong in the same game, he didn't get paid - so he had one to go.

He didn't get it.

Mark, that reminded me of Tuesday night when we were watching the JV game waiting for our varsity games, the ref was very animated and funny but not very good, seemed like they called 100 fouls and put us behind by 45 minutes with a snowstorm moving in. Two girls from same team come down with rebound, neither moving feet and one pulls it away. He blows the whistle and sells "automatic travelling" because two players from the same team touched it. It was amusing for awhile, he had a football shirt, white socks, a broken belt loop, but after we realized how far behind he was putting us it lost some shine.

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I've had a few interpreter gurus argue that the only correct signal in this case is "illegal use of hands".

JR, I would not go so far as to say it's the "only" correct signal, but in the case we're talking about, I would also go with illegal use of hands.

In my defense,I gotta tell ya that as I was writing the above,Mikey(my main dog) and Vesta(my back-up dog)were yapping at me to go down and let them out-so I was in a hurry.Will you buy that one?

C'mon, JR. You can do better than that! Did they eat your homework too?

Chuck

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Rut, you been watching too much SportsCenter with Stuart Scott.

Chuck

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Slider

Plus, the arms must recoil from the impact or it is a block.

Slider, what does this even mean? I don't understand what you're trying to say. And if I think about it and guess what you mean, then I think you're totally wrong about it.

Why would "recoiling arms" be necessary to draw a charge? Can you explain this a little better?

Chuck