My fault...

[Mregor]

We always say in pregame, trust me to call my area. You were out of position but didn't you still have best look at it? Make a decision and live with it. If you absolutely can't, still, why ask the Lead? Why not ask C who at least has secondary or dual depending on where exactly shot came from, whereas the Lead has none. You say the play was in transition but it really wasn't. You were 2-3 steps over division line when the stwal happened, turned and the ball was passed. By the time the shot was released, all 3 of you must have been in the f/c. That's not transition where lead should have the shot outside his primary. A high school girls game should not be too fast for a 3-person crew to not be in proper position at all times.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Mregor

A high school girls game should not be too fast for a 3-person crew to not be in proper position at all times.

It's simply unrealistic to believe there's never going to be a time in a quick turnover situation that an official isn't going to be out of position.

Should we all work to make sure it happens as little as possible? Absolutely. Will it still happen? Yes, though hopefully rarely.

In the OP, the lead gave him a clear 2-point signal. If the lead hadn't seen it, he shouldn't have signaled anything, and then he could look to C for help, and after that you're left with "best guess."

That's not good, but it's what a guy can do. If I'm involved in the same play and the lead on my crew gives the a signal for 2 or 3, I'm gonna trust him.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

It's simply unrealistic to believe there's never going to be a time in a quick turnover situation that an official isn't going to be out of position.

I din't say that. In the OP, he is trying to get someone to side with him that this isn't his fault. It is. Sure there are times when you may not see something, but does that it any less your fault? No. Take responsibilty for your own actions or inactions. If not, I know who you vote for.

Originally Posted by jdw3018

In the OP, the lead gave him a clear 2-point signal. If the lead hadn't seen it, he shouldn't have signaled anything, and then he could look to C for help, and after that you're left with "best guess."

He only got the signal from the Lead after he asked for it. My point is, ask the C who has sencondary or dual responsibility depending on where the shot came from not the Lead who has no responsibility for 3-pt shots.

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If I'm involved in the same play and the lead on my crew gives the a signal for 2 or 3, I'm gonna trust him.

If I'm involved in the same play, and I have no idea if it's a 2 or 3, I'll ask the C for help first.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Mregor

I din't say that. In the OP, he is trying to get someone to side with him that this isn't his fault. It is. Sure there are times when you may not see something, but does that it any less your fault? No. Take responsibilty for your own actions or inactions. If not, I know who you vote for.

Fair point, and for that one I agree!

Originally Posted by Mregor

He only got the signal from the Lead after he asked for it. My point is, ask the C who has sencondary or dual responsibility depending on where the shot came from not the Lead who has no responsibility for 3-pt shots.

I just re-read the OP. He looked to L for help - maybe you're right that he should have looked to C first. I would normally look to C first; however, who knows how this play developed? I could see a lot of scenarios that would have L looking through his primary right at the shooter in a quick-pass kind of play.

Either way, if another official gives me a definite signal, I'm going to trust them. If L didn't see it and had to guess, he shouldn't have given him anything. It's an important point to trust your partner here.

Finally, if C was definite that it was a three, he should have blown it dead immediately. That we know for sure.

None of that, however, absolves T in this position as having the ultimate responsibility, and if the crew gets this play wrong it's first and foremost on the T. Who bears responsibility for the subsequent handling of that mistake, though, is what the OP was about. And it's the entire crew, from where I sit.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Either way, if another official gives me a definite signal, I'm going to trust them. If L didn't see it and had to guess, he shouldn't have given him anything. It's an important point to trust your partner here.

I always pregame that if you ask me for help, I gonna give you an answer. If you look to me for help and I have none, what are you going to do? In an OOB situation, we can just go with AP, but in this case since it was a made basket, it has to be 2 or 3. If I didn't see a 3, all I can say is 2.

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Finally, if C was definite that it was a three, he should have blown it dead immediately. That we know for sure.

Agreed.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Mregor

I always pregame that if you ask me for help, I gonna give you an answer. If you look to me for help and I have none, what are you going to do? In an OOB situation, we can just go with AP, but in this case since it was a made basket, it has to be 2 or 3. If I didn't see a 3, all I can say is 2.

Interesting. I've always pregamed that if you look to me for help, I'll only give it if I've seen something.

I'd be curious what others do, and why they have that rationale. How about you, Mregor? Why always give something rather than nothing? In this scenario, if nobody sees anything, you go with 2, so why should L make that call?

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Interesting. I've always pregamed that if you look to me for help, I'll only give it if I've seen something.

I'd be curious what others do, and why they have that rationale. How about you, Mregor? Why always give something rather than nothing? In this scenario, if nobody sees anything, you go with 2, so why should L make that call?

What am I supposed to give? A shrug and then let the primary guess? If primary doesn't have it and they ask for help, we need something. I'm either going to give them the information (direction) or in the case of OOB situation where I have nothing, an AP direction.

In the case of 2 or 3, Lead wouldn't make the call and that's my point. Why ask the Lead when it's not his primary or secondary. What I would have done, is look to the C. If the C gives me a "didn't see it" look, signal 2 and move on. Since it's not at the end of the game, I wouldn't stop and conference about it.

Lastly, C had no business saying it was the wrong call afterwards, that we can agree on. If he knew it was wrong, he should have corrected it.