Free Throw Question

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

AP arrow. Rule 6-4-3(e).

Originally Posted by Back in the Saddle

"The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player." NFHS 7-2-1

The ball is awarded out of bounds for ... "A violation, as in 9-1 through 13." NFHS 7-4-1

"A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds." NFHS 9-3-1

B's ball. Much less weird

Sooo... which one is it. I'm doing a double tonight and I just know this is going to happen now that I read it here. LOL

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Sooo... which one is it. I'm doing a double tonight and I just know this is going to happen now that I read it here. LOL

You decide based on the info here. There, unfortunately, is no grand-master of rules to tell us, otherwise this would be easy.

I believe it's an OOB violation, which is an infraction, therefore 6-4-3(e) wouldn't apply, and it's simple. You can decide if I'm right!

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You decide based on the info here. There, unfortunately, is no grand-master of rules to tell us, otherwise this would be easy.

I believe it's an OOB violation, which is an infraction, therefore 6-4-3(e) wouldn't apply, and it's simple. You can decide if I'm right!

I would give the ball to B as a throw in from the spot it went out.

[FrankHtown]

Why isn't there team control?? The shooter is holding a live ball inbounds...sounds like team control to me...

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Why isn't there team control?? The shooter is holding a live ball inbounds...sounds like team control to me...

Really? I thought the ball went OOB untouched

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Why isn't there team control?? The shooter is holding a live ball inbounds...sounds like team control to me...

After the ball is released?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

There, unfortunately, is no grand-master of rules to tell us, otherwise this would be easy.

Speak for yourself, Grasshopper. Think of it this way. It's no different than if a shot hit the rim and went OOB untouched. In both cases, the ball was live when it was in the hands of the shooter, team control was lost when the shot (FT) was taken, the ball hit the rim and then went OOB. If it was a shot, you would give the ball to the defense for a spot throw in at the spot where the ball went OOB. Why wouldn't you do the same if the only difference is that is was an FT? All the other factors are the same, except that the clock wouldn't be running the entire time for the FT, but I don't see where that would make a difference in how you administer the penalty.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Speak for yourself, Grasshopper. Think of it this way. It's no different than if a shot hit the rim and went OOB untouched. In both cases, the ball was live when it was in the hands of the shooter, team control was lost when the shot (FT) was taken, the ball hit the rim and then went OOB. If it was a shot, you would give the ball to the defense for a spot throw in at the spot where the ball went OOB. Why wouldn't you do the same if the only difference is that is was an FT? All the other factors are the same, except that the clock wouldn't be running the entire time for the FT, but I don't see where that would make a difference in how you administer the penalty.

Yeah, but I agree with all that, Mark!

My only point was that you will rarely ever get everyone to agree on anything on a message board, and nobody here gets "final say-so"...so, as a reader, you have to read everyone's posts, read and know the rules, then decide for yourself.

Regardless of how "easy" or "simple" the answer should be. I absolutely agree that this is an OOB violation on A, B's ball.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Yeah, but I agree with all that, Mark!

My only point was that you will rarely ever get everyone to agree on anything on a message board, and nobody here gets "final say-so"...so, as a reader, you have to read everyone's posts, read and know the rules, then decide for yourself.

Regardless of how "easy" or "simple" the answer should be. I absolutely agree that this is an OOB violation on A, B's ball.

I'm still trying to pick my chin up off the floor from realizing that JR had one wrong

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kbilla

I'm still trying to pick my chin up off the floor from realizing that JR had one wrong

You don't get out much, do you?

There isn't anyone posting on this board that hasn't been wrong a few times.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You don't get out much, do you?

There isn't anyone posting on this board that hasn't been wrong a few times.

Ha ha, of course just the first time I have seen it!

You know I have to admit when I first came to this board, I thought you were a grumpy old SOB who had a huge attitude problem and always thought he was right and just loved making other people feel like s**t.....I have since come to realize that you are just a grumpy old SOB who IS right about 99% of the time and just has a very low tolerance for BS....and THAT I can respect...

[rgncjn]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Speak for yourself, Grasshopper. Think of it this way. It's no different than if a shot hit the rim and went OOB untouched. In both cases, the ball was live when it was in the hands of the shooter, team control was lost when the shot (FT) was taken, the ball hit the rim and then went OOB. If it was a shot, you would give the ball to the defense for a spot throw in at the spot where the ball went OOB. Why wouldn't you do the same if the only difference is that is was an FT? All the other factors are the same, except that the clock wouldn't be running the entire time for the FT, but I don't see where that would make a difference in how you administer the penalty.

That was one of the examples I gave to my partner at the time. I am glad WE got the call right...

[jer166]

are we over thinking these things sometimes?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by jer166

are we over thinking these things sometimes?

Yes. But there is sometimes something to be gained in the process of overthinking.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Yes. But there is sometimes something to be gained in the process of overthinking.

Sureasheck is.....as long as you end up with the correct answer after going through the process. We never stop learning through our mistakes imo.